# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 66
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1301 "2014-12-15T19:30:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Huh? This is incoherent, and there is no link to click. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Smapti [says](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17718754#post17718754) it would be wrong for a slave to disobey his master if slavery were legal. Then, later, [he says](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17979413&postcount=1288) (in his opinion, for maybe the first time!) that it would be morally right to help a slave escape. > > Only now does he distinguish right and wrong between government and his opinion. Did you just complain about there not being a link to click… and then _provide the link_ two posts later? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1302 "2014-12-15T19:35:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Did you just complain about there not being a link to click… and then _provide the link_ two posts later? This was your quote: “I do not like that this is the case, and that is why I oppose slavery; I do not like that this is the case, and that is why I oppose slavery; however, the fact that the law is the law does not changed merely based on my wishing the law were otherwise”. There was a cut and paste error, or something (the same phrase repeated), and no link. Further, the actual correct post didn’t dispute my point. You said it was wrong, and you said that you “did not like that this is the case”, but you said nothing indicating you personally thought it was wrong until now. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1303 "2014-12-15T19:37:13Z")
Again, earlier you said it’s wrong for a slave to disobey their master. How do you feel now? Is it right or wrong for a slave to try and escape? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1304 "2014-12-15T19:39:52Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Again, earlier you said it’s wrong for a slave to disobey their master. > > How do you feel now? Is it right or wrong for a slave to try and escape? It is legally wrong. I do not think it should be wrong; my belief does not trump the state’s. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1305 "2014-12-15T19:41:00Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It is legally wrong. I do not think it should be wrong; my belief does not trump the state’s. What is your personal opinion? Is it morally right or wrong for a slave to try and escape? And if the government is illegitimate, why does their belief trump yours? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1306 "2014-12-15T19:44:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What is your personal opinion? Is it morally right or wrong for a slave to try and escape? It is my personal opinion that people should not be allowed to own slaves. I make no claims regarding what is moral, because I do not acknowledge that morality is objectively definable. > [@](#): > > And if the government is illegitimate, why does their belief trump yours? Because they have more ability to enforce their belief than I do. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1307 "2014-12-15T19:46:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It is my personal opinion that people should not be allowed to own slaves. > > I make no claims regarding what is moral, because I do not acknowledge that morality is objectively definable. You made claims here: > [@Smapti](#): > > In the opinion of the German government, it was wrong. In my opinion, it was right. Guess whose opinion was of greater importance to the average German soldier? > > In the opinion of the laws of the nation of Hypothetica, it would be wrong. In my opinion, it would be right. Guess whose opinion would be of greater importance to the average Hypothetican? You wouldn’t make opinion claims about morality, then you would, then you wouldn’t again. Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1308 "2014-12-15T19:47:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I make no claims regarding what is moral, because I do not acknowledge that morality is objectively definable. You don’t even acknowledge its _existence_, let alone its properties. > [@](#): > > Because they have more ability to enforce their belief than I do. Case in point. This is known as “might makes right”. It is an _amoral_ proposition. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1309 "2014-12-15T19:50:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You wouldn’t make opinion claims about morality, then you would, then you wouldn’t again. Which is it? I can’t say what _is_ right, because that would require the existence of an objective standard of morality, and there is no such thing. I can only say what I _believe_ is right. I cannot pretend that what I believe is right is right on any basis greater than my own say-so. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1310 "2014-12-15T19:51:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I see a difference. McVeigh didn’t, and as stated above, he had an obligation to break the unjust laws he was morally opposed to. > > Do you begin to see why letting people break laws based on their personal moral compass is a bad idea? If it weren’t for people who did that, then we would never ended segregation. Many more would have perished in the Holocaust. Women might still not be able to vote. My god, what the hell is WRONG with you? ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1311 "2014-12-15T19:53:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I cannot pretend that what I believe is right is right on any basis greater than my own say-so. If you actually analyzed your moral code, you wouldn’t have to “pretend”. There is a whole field of study devoted to this analysis. It is known as ethics. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1312 "2014-12-15T19:53:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I can’t say what _is_ right, because that would require the existence of an objective standard of morality, and there is no such thing. I can only say what I _believe_ is right. I cannot pretend that what I believe is right is right on any basis greater than my own say-so. This is the first time you’ve even said anything about what you believe is right or wrong. Constantly changing. Not that saying “this is right” or “this is wrong” requires an objective standard… most in this thread have acknowledged the subjective nature of morality while still reiterating that one can have moral beliefs and state what is right or wrong. But your statement that you wouldn’t help slaves escape even when the risk to yourself is nil shows the extent of your cowardice, especially since you now state that you believe that slavery is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1313 "2014-12-15T20:14:13Z")
Wow, he’s right! There is _no_ objective standard for morality! Boy, all those so-called “deep thinkers” got nothing on him! OK, that’s taken care of, next up: can God make a burrito he cannot eat? Smapti? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1314 "2014-12-15T20:16:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > OK, that’s taken care of, next up: can God make a burrito he cannot eat? Only if he orders it off that one truck. You know the one I mean. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1315 "2014-12-15T21:04:37Z")
I hereby nominate **Smapti** to be our designated Deep Thinker, given his extraordinary capacity for such rigorous thought. Our “catch phrase” for acknowledging his awesome awesomeness shall be:“Deep thinking, bro!” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1316 "2014-12-24T02:28:13Z")
I thought I remembered seeing a **Smapti** pitting. Good, I do not have to start one just for this classic piece of bullshit, > [@Executed child found to be innocent](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/159): > > > [@Executed child found to be innocent](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/executed-child-found-to-be-innocent/707549/158): > > > > Justice is the process that protects all of us from the tyranny of the government. > > You’ve got that backwards. Justice is the process by which the government protects us from the mob - you know, those guys in the streets chanting for dead cops. Not only is it an absurd digression from a digression of the thread (click the blue quote arrow to see more of his lovely droolings peppered throughout), but it is also fetid bullshit that he seems to have acquired from a dubious news source that has even apologized for their error. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1317 "2014-12-24T03:22:50Z")
It’s a stupid, loutish, ham-fisted piece of hate-filled driveling… But aren’t both statements correct? Justice protects the individuals from the state, the state from the individuals, individuals from each other, and government officials from each other too. The government does protect us from the mob; that’s one of its valid purposes. But Justice also protects us from the tyranny of the government: **Smapti** blows it when he says, “You’ve got that backwards,” because it’s true both backwards and the way it was originally phrased. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1318 "2014-12-24T03:49:42Z")
**Smapti** confuses security and justice. I honestly don’t think he can comprehend where the former might exist without the latter. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1319 "2014-12-24T06:22:47Z")
Well, I was more disgusted by the “_mob - you know, those guys in the streets chanting for dead cops._” which turned out to be wrong, except, he heard about it so it must be true. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2014, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1320 "2014-12-24T06:55:11Z")
There really wasn’t such a mob and chant? I only heard about it on the Sean Hannity show, and I believed it, on the grounds that even Sean Hannity wouldn’t make up shit that blatantly. Sigh… I guess he would… I guess the time has come for us to ask the American right wing, once again, “You’ve done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=65) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=67)