# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 75
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1481 "2015-01-05T14:18:20Z")
The impression I get is Smapti’s arguing from a slippery slope - indulge one claimed transexual and the next thing you know, genderlessness becomes mandatory. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1482 "2015-01-05T14:25:39Z")
I think Smapti is arguing from a purely authoritarian position. You don’t get to change the name you were legally given, unless you have legal authorization to do so. I am fully confident that Smapti would be fine using female pronouns to refer to this particular person if the government said it was okay. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1483 "2015-01-05T14:40:18Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I think Smapti is arguing from a purely authoritarian position. You don’t get to change the name you were legally given, unless you have legal authorization to do so. > > I am fully confident that Smapti would be fine using female pronouns to refer to this particular person if the government said it was okay. [“I have altered the deal. Pray I don’t alter it any further.”](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=S6CqVMG1E8uZNpTUgrAG&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DWpE_xMRiCLE&ved=0CB0QtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNHwIixiOnrZHt2SOxX-vn5Y-YWvQA) ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1484 "2015-01-05T14:52:01Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The impression I get is Smapti’s arguing from a slippery slope - indulge one claimed transexual and the next thing you know, genderlessness becomes mandatory. So it is the whole “if gay marriage is legal, the government is going to force me to marry a man!” crap all over again. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1485 "2015-01-05T14:53:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > This board is the biggest significant social outlet I have in my life. Why would I set out to have people I consider friends call me the worst human being they know? You can’t have it both ways. You can express views that are greatly at odds with the mainstream in these forums, or you can come here for a social outlet, and you can enjoy yourself doing either one. But you can’t do both. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1486 "2015-01-05T16:06:20Z")
> [@grude](#): > > So it is the whole “if gay marriage is legal, the government is going to force me to marry a man!” crap all over again. Heck, magellan01 is determinedly riding that pony with his contention that 40 yeaes after gay marriage is legalized, there will be vast and negative social repercussions, though he can’t specify what they are or what warning sings we should be looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1487 "2015-01-05T16:08:30Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You can’t have it both ways. > > You can express views that are greatly at odds with the mainstream in these forums, or you can come here for a social outlet, and you can enjoy yourself doing either one. But you can’t do both. That’s crap and you’re a whiny bitch for suggesting it. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1488 "2015-01-05T16:36:00Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > That’s crap and you’re a whiny bitch for suggesting it. Not surprising that you would take offense at the suggestion, considering that you might yourself be the ultimate running dog lackey on these boards. (But then you might not be - the competition is pretty stiff.) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1489 "2015-01-05T16:49:59Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Not surprising that you would take offense at the suggestion, considering that you might yourself be the ultimate running dog lackey on these boards. (But then you might not be - the competition is pretty stiff.) Whoosh! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1490 "2015-01-05T17:01:27Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You can’t have it both ways. > > You can express views that are greatly at odds with the mainstream in these forums, or you can come here for a social outlet, and you can enjoy yourself doing either one. But you can’t do both. Non-snarky answer… yes, you can do both, depending on the view in question. You can’t be an open Holocaust denier, most likely, or a Muslim fundamentalist, or a 9/11 truther, or a birther, or argue a number of other weird viewpoints (like it’s wrong to try and free slaves in a slave society), and be “accepted” socially by the Dope community. But you can argue conservative viewpoints on a number of issues and still be “accepted”. There are a number of posters who do. When they make mistakes and bad posts, they get jumped on more, just due to the demographics of the board – but this is true for any group that leans one way or the other. Liberal eyes will generally look more closely at conservative posts for mistakes, and vice versa. And this isn’t just bias – often it’s just people looking for arguments, rather than looking for agreement (for both sides). ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1491 "2015-01-05T17:19:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Non-snarky answer… yes, you can do both, depending on the view in question. Also depending on how frequently and forcefully you expressed those views. And it’s not a binary either/or. To the extent that you do one, you will lack the other. But of course, you are correct that the degree of divergence of your viewpoint is a major factor (along with how important that issue is). I should also note that no matter who you are and what anyone thinks of you you can probably get some “social outlet” in forums like MPSIMS and the like, where some people are unaware of your views and others are held in check by the rules. But I’m thinking that knowing that a significant percentage of those who you engage think you’re contemptible scum might put a damper on the “social outlet” aspect for a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1492 "2015-01-05T17:32:14Z")
I’d have no qualms about turning Jews over to the Nazis. Oh, and hey, what did you think about “Gone Girl”? That Rosamund Pike is something else! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1493 "2015-01-05T18:08:53Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Whoosh! No shock there. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1494 "2015-01-05T18:17:43Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > The impression I get is Smapti’s arguing from a slippery slope - indulge one claimed transexual and the next thing you know, genderlessness becomes mandatory. I have no problem with “indulging” transsexuals. The only objection I have is to a definition of gender which provides absolutely no useful information about the people it’s being applied to. I don’t understand why you think that it’s either “Accept that gender is fluid and independent from sex” or “transgenderism is wrong and evil”. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1495 "2015-01-05T18:23:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The only objection I have is to a definition of gender which provides absolutely no useful information about the people it’s being applied to. What useful information do you feel is conveyed by traditional understandings of gender? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1496 "2015-01-05T18:30:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I have no problem with “indulging” transsexuals. The only objection I have is to a definition of gender which provides absolutely no useful information about the people it’s being applied to. It provides you with all the info you will need about the person’s gender in most every circumstance. If the pronoun you’re given varies from what’s in the person’s underpants, what the fuck does it matter to you? It seems like you just want to be an asshole for the sake of being an asshole - and to prove that, you just can’t stop posting the same shit in that GD thread over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1497 "2015-01-05T18:36:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I have no problem with “indulging” transsexuals. The only objection I have is to a definition of gender which provides absolutely no useful information about the people it’s being applied to. I don’t understand why you think that it’s either “Accept that gender is fluid and independent from sex” or “transgenderism is wrong and evil”. Why on earth do you think that knowing someone’s gender provides no useful information? Do you really think that, biologically or socially, the only difference between men and women is the shape of their sexual organs? Frankly, in 99% of circumstances, knowing someone’s physical sex provides far less useful information than knowing their gender. It’s really only relevant if you’re their doctor, or possibly if you are going to have sex with them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1498 "2015-01-05T18:36:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I have no problem with “indulging” transsexuals. The only objection I have is to a definition of gender which provides absolutely no useful information about the people it’s being applied to. It provides useful information – the gender one considers oneself. I want to be respectful and kind, and sometimes that might involve addressing using a name and pronoun that might not be immediately obvious. This is very useful information for someone who is interested in being respectful and kind to others. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1499 "2015-01-05T18:42:24Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Do you really think that, biologically or socially, the only difference between men and women is the shape of their sexual organs? Well, I’ve asked a few times, and nobody has been able to describe a concrete difference between males and females other than “males are people who believe they’re male and females are people who believe they’re female”. So yes. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1500 "2015-01-05T18:48:21Z")
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