# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 81
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1601 "2019-03-14T15:04:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Ya sure? > > [https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24132190-100-how-neuroscience-is-exploding-the-myth-of-male-and-female-brains/](https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24132190-100-how-neuroscience-is-exploding-the-myth-of-male-and-female-brains/) > > [Neurosexism: the myth that men and women have different brains](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00677-x) I’ll have a read of those later, I’ll just note that the post you quoted is from several years ago and this is new research. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1602 "2019-03-14T15:20:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I would have taken no action, because I would prefer not to endanger myself in the process. > > In the previously posited scenario, I, a soldier on a battlefield, am being compelled to commit a questionably unlawful act. In yours, I, an ordinary citizen, have no legal compulsion to actively seek out and turn in escaped slaves or fleeing Jews, and if I have no personal knowledge of such persons, then I cannot be accused of failing to report them. Out of curiosity, what happens if you flip it around? Say that _you’re_ the slave that someone else on the Underground Railroad is willing to help escape; or that _you’re_ the endangered Jew in Nazi Germany, and someone else can get you out of the country. What’s your response? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1603 "2019-03-14T15:36:10Z")
Oh I doubt you’re going to like this. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1604 "2019-03-14T15:49:51Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Out of curiosity, what happens if you flip it around? Say that _you’re_ the slave that someone else on the Underground Railroad is willing to help escape; or that _you’re_ the endangered Jew in Nazi Germany, and someone else can get you out of the country. What’s your response? He’s already answered this – he thinks that the only morally correct thing for a slave to do is to obey their master. Seriously. He really, actually said this. A human being on Earth in the 21st century said this: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17715425&postcount=447](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17715425&postcount=447) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1605 "2019-03-14T16:06:20Z")
And I suppose that the only morally correct option for a Jew in Nazi Germany was to willingly march into the death chambers. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1606 "2019-03-14T16:36:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I suppose that the only morally correct option for a Jew in Nazi Germany was to willingly march into the death chambers. Sure, if the paperwork was all in order. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1607 "2019-03-14T17:26:22Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Sure, if the paperwork was all in order. Even if your name is Tuttle? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1608 "2019-03-14T17:27:45Z")
There’s a certain strength in _reductio ad absurdum_. Then you see cases like this. Whenever you conclude slavery or marching Jews to death camps is morally superior to violating the law by logically following through on a premise, that should trip some major alarm bells. Emerson was spot on that a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1609 "2019-03-14T17:46:13Z")
Well, Fascism wasn’t really much of a thing in Emerson’s time. If it had been, I’m sure he would have said: _“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of cowardly, fascistic, and idiotic minds.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1610 "2019-03-19T10:14:40Z")
**Smapti** ’s moral brokenness is analyzable in terms of [Kohlberg’s stages of moral development](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development). Kohlberg identified six stages beginning with the simplest pleasure-vs.-pain motivation of very young children and building up to universal ethical principles at the level of highest development. Smapti is stuck at the fourth stage, where morality is identified with law and authority. Mature adults normally progress past this stage to higher levels of understanding of right and wrong. He’s hit a hard ceiling at the fourth stage. Not only that, he’s bolted iron plates into the ceiling joists to ensure he can never break through to a higher level of development. He’s a little more complex than that, but not in a good way. In some instances he seems to regress to lower levels, where the motivation is to avoid consequences for oneself. This takes place when his usual fourth-stage morality runs into impossible contradictions, as it must at times. I can’t speculate on what has caused such a hardened fixation at an immature level of development, but in Kohlbergian terms his problem is clear to see. It’s profoundly disturbing and I can only hope he somehow gets help for it. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1611 "2019-03-19T10:35:36Z")
Shit, that was one of the most sophisticated takedowns I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1612 "2019-03-19T11:25:58Z")
Dammit, **Smapti** , you were doing so well for such a long time. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1613 "2019-03-19T15:06:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I suppose that the only morally correct option for a Jew in Nazi Germany was to willingly march into the death chambers. And they should be goose-stepping for good measure to show their patriotism. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1614 "2019-03-19T15:16:12Z")
coward, a fascist and an idiot Your title is redundant. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1615 "2019-03-19T15:36:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I suppose that the only morally correct option for a Jew in Nazi Germany was to willingly march into the death chambers. And Smapti would have forced them in at bayonet point if they resisted. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1616 "2019-03-19T19:03:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In that situation, if I believed the order was unlawful and my superior refused to restate or clarify it in a lawful manner, I would be obligated to either attempt to relieve my superior of his command, or, failing that, surrender myself for detainment pending court-martial for violation of Article 90 and/or 92. Am I the only one who read this and heard it in the voice of Rimmer of _Red Dwarf_? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1617 "2019-03-19T19:44:58Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Am I the only one who read this and heard it in the voice of Rimmer of _Red Dwarf_? Article 90? “No officer will engage in sexual relations with an animal unless in possession of a veterinary waiver”? Are you entirely sure that is relevant, sir? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1618 "2019-03-19T21:15:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I suppose that the only morally correct option for a Jew in Nazi Germany was to willingly march into the death chambers. Ah, but suicide is also a big no no Smapti’s book. So there is quite the conundrum. If a person in authority commands you to kill yourself should you do it? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1619 "2019-03-19T21:28:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > And Smapti would have forced them in at bayonet point if they resisted. All those willing participants Milgram found have to be somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1620 "2019-03-19T22:47:00Z")
As Robert Anton Wilson suggested, take a private first class trained to unquestioning obedience to authority. Put him in front of two officers of equal rank, one ordering him to stand up and the other simultaneously ordering him to sit down. Wilson concluded that the subject would “wig out.” Can you picture **Smapti** in that situation? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=80) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=82)