# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 87
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1721 "2024-05-12T09:54:11Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > Israel can stop bombing babies. Why doesn’t Israel stop bombing babies? Israel doesn’t “bomb babies”. Babies have died as an unintended side-effect of Israel’s war against Hamas, but babies died as an unintended side-effect of our war against the Nazis, too. Given the population of Gaza, it’s mathematically impossible for Israel to kill as many children, babies, and pregnant women as the Allies killed while waging WWII. Does that mean we deliberately targeted babies? Does that mean WWII wasn’t worth fighting? I hope you’ll agree with me that the answer to both questions is ‘No’. The mere fact that babies have died as an unintended side-effect of Israel’s military campaign doesn’t mean that the campaign itself isn’t worth waging. As for why Israel are still waging the campaign, the simple answer is because Hamas still exists. So, now I’ve answered your question you can answer mine. If Hamas surrendered, Israel’s military operations would cease immediately. Why haven’t Hamas surrendered? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1722 "2024-05-12T10:28:08Z")
Hamas hasn’t surrendered because it’s a death cult. Israel isn’t accomplishing anything but killing civilians. That’s why their campaign isn’t worth waging right now. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1723 "2024-05-12T12:26:44Z")
If I recall correctly, the Allies in World War II actually did intentionally bomb babies. The [Wiki page here on carpet bombing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpet_bombing#Bombing_by_the_Western_Allies) is rather informative ( **bolding** mine). > At the beginning of war, [RAF Bomber Command](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Bomber_Command) lacked both the navigation systems for finding a target and the numbers of bombers that were needed to make attacks of any scale in Germany. > > As heavy bombers were brought into service and technology and tactics were improved, the selection of targets was changed. **The intention of avoiding civilian casualties as collateral damage disappeared. Instead, the civilian population which worked in war-related industries – and their housing – became the target.** ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1724 "2024-05-12T13:58:49Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > My solution is for Egypt to start taking in refugees like they should have done 80 years ago. Your solution is that Gaza should be depopulated of Gazans. That’s still a genocide, even if the bulk of the former inhabitants are driven off as refugees instead of mass-murdered. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1725 "2024-05-12T15:27:08Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > Israel doesn’t “bomb babies”. Reports are that Israel sometimes waits for terrorists to go home then bombs their home. The reports of bombed schools, shelters, and refugee camps with no terrorists inside are innumerable. Sounds like bombing babies to me. I guess sometimes they just cut off the power and let the babies in incubators die that way. But instead, we’re still doing “Israel has no agency and can’t help but to bomb civilians.” > [@WalterBishop](#): > > If Hamas surrendered, Israel’s military operations would cease immediately. Why haven’t Hamas surrendered? Israel has already stated that even if Hamas gave up all the hostages, they would still prosecute the invasion of Rafah. Doesn’t sound like ceased military operations to me. And Hamas hasn’t surrendered because they don’t give a shit about dead innocents, except as PR. Is this a surprise to literally anyone? Israel is claiming to be BETTER than Hamas, so they’re criticized, because it doesn’t look like it. This entire exchange started with “Why aren’t you mad at Egypt for what’s happening in Gaza?” And the answer is and always has been - Egypt isn’t doing anything to Gaza except trying to help. Israel is doing nothing but creating another generation of Hamas in a decade. You’re not going to win innocents to your side if you keep killing their innocent friends and family. There’s no peaceful step forward without Gazan civilians on Israel’s side. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1726 "2024-05-12T22:50:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Hamas hasn’t surrendered because it’s a death cult. > [@Chisquirrel](#): > > And Hamas hasn’t surrendered because they don’t give a shit about dead innocents, And these are the people you think Israel should be negotiating with? These are the people you think Israel should cease fire against? These are the people who you think should be allowed to keep running Gaza? If they’re a death cult then I say give them death. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1727 "2024-05-12T22:51:41Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Your solution is that Gaza should be depopulated of Gazans. That’s still a genocide, even if the bulk of the former inhabitants are driven off as refugees instead of mass-murdered. Was it a genocide when Turkey expelled the Greeks and vice versa after WWI? Was it genocide when Russia took Konigsburg? When the US evacuated Bikini Atoll, was that a genocide? This is the kind of mentality that would have told Polish Jews to sit tight in 1939. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1728 "2024-05-12T22:56:19Z")
Are you earnestly advocating the removal of Gazans? What’s the plan here? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1729 "2024-05-12T23:41:35Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > This is the kind of mentality that would have told Polish Jews to sit tight in 1939. Actually, it’s the kind of mentality that would fly the genocide flag at the first whiff of Nazis “deporting Jews to the East,” even without knowing that was only a euphemism, because forced displacement of the sort _you are advocating for_ is a genocide all of its own. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1730 "2024-05-12T23:53:29Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Are you earnestly advocating the removal of Gazans? Not per se. However, if I believed that Israel was planning genocide I absolutely would be, because relocation \> death. It seems utterly bewildering to me that people would argue that Israel is olanning to kill all of the Gazans AND that Gazans should make no attempt to flee and nobody should offer them a place to flee too. What I am advocating is that Egypt should open its border right now and start offering asylum to any Gazans who choose to flee, and in the long run the US (ideally with NATO assistance) should begin resettling those people. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1731 "2024-05-12T23:54:27Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Actually, it’s the kind of mentality that would fly the genocide flag at the first whiff of Nazis “deporting Jews to the East,” even without knowing that was only a euphemism, because forced displacement of the sort _you are advocating for_ is a genocide all of its own. By that logic, the US was right to turn away boatloads of Jews fleeing the Holocaust. Running away from the people who are trying to kill you is just as bad as getting killed, donchaknow. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1732 "2024-05-12T23:55:06Z")
Israel is helping Hamas. Hamas wants death and destruction. Israel is giving it to them, and Hamas keeps regaining territory. You’re supporting a completely failing campaign that is doing nothing but killing civilians. Israel is getting weaker and Israel’s enemies are getting stronger, all because of the malevolence and incompetence of Israeli leadership and the IDF. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1733 "2024-05-12T23:56:09Z")
You support keeping Gaza indefinitely under the rule of a homicidal death cult that wants its own citizens dead. You are in no position to claim I’m the one who supports pointless death. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1734 "2024-05-12T23:56:57Z")
Now you’re just a liar. I support smart action by Israel that would actually harm Hamas. I’ve laid out, in detail, what Israel should have done in other threads. And fuck you, liar. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2024, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1735 "2024-05-12T23:58:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ve laid out, in detail, what Israel should have done in other threads. You’ve said Israel should “actually go after Hamas” without explaining how or what that means and you somehow expect it to be the first and only war in human history with no collateral damage. Short of deploying the Jedi into Gaza I have no idea how you expect that to happen. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1736 "2024-05-13T00:04:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’ve said Israel should “actually go after Hamas” without explaining how or what that means and you somehow expect it to be the first and only war in human history with no collateral damage. Go after Hamas means targeting the funders and planners. And most importantly, it means an actual plan for Gaza with some other organization in charge. Israel has been helping Hamas for years - and they still are. The worst thing for Hamas _would be for an Israeli government to actually be a real partner to the Palestinian people for peace_. And another lie - I never said anything about “no collateral damage”. Right now, the war is essentially nothing but collateral damage. Collateral damage implies actual progress - there’s been essentially no progress here. Hamas just comes back because of the incompetence of the Israeli campaign. Why are you supporting such an incompetent campaign? All it’s doing is killing civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1737 "2024-05-13T00:11:54Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And these are the people you think Israel should be negotiating with? When the fuck did I say anything like that? Fuck Hamas. And fuck those who kill innocent civilians under the guise of attacking Hamas. > [@Smapti](#): > > It seems utterly bewildering to me that people would argue that Israel is olanning to kill all of the Gazans AND that Gazans should make no attempt to flee and nobody should offer them a place to flee too. The exact same thing can be said of Israel. Oh wait…“We have nukes.” > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Go after Hamas means targeting the funders and planners. And most importantly, it means an actual plan for Gaza with some other organization in charge. Israel has been helping Hamas for years - and they still are. The worst thing for Hamas _would be for an Israeli government to actually be a real partner to the Palestinian people for peace_. > > And another lie - I never said anything about “no collateral damage”. Right now, the war is essentially nothing but collateral damage. Collateral damage implies actual progress - there’s been essentially no progress here. Hamas just comes back because of the incompetence of the Israeli campaign. > > Why are you supporting such an incompetent campaign? All it’s doing is killing civilians. I’m amazed people still try to reason with the person that said “Kill them all” because someone criticized him. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1738 "2024-05-13T00:15:29Z")
He’s just a bored Westerner larping as Antifa who thinks international news is a movie and wants to see blood. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1739 "2024-05-13T00:24:29Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > wants to see blood. I want to see Hamas surrender. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2024, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1740 "2024-05-13T00:26:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > > > Actually, it’s the kind of mentality that would fly the genocide flag at the first whiff of Nazis “deporting Jews to the East,” even without knowing that was only a euphemism, because forced displacement of the sort _you are advocating for_ is a genocide all of its own. > > By that logic, the US was right to turn away boatloads of Jews fleeing the Holocaust. Running away from the people who are trying to kill you is just as bad as getting killed, donchaknow. Shame on you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=86) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=88)