# Smapti is Pitted **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 21, 2014, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907 "2014-05-21T08:14:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 96
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1901 "2025-12-20T02:08:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Hind’s story: I will look through those and get back to you. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1902 "2025-12-20T02:22:20Z")
Wait, are you seriously claiming that the Holocaust was the only genocide ever in human history? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1903 "2025-12-20T02:31:57Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > But I remain unconvinced by smapti’s cites about Wikipedia untrustworthiness. Here, I found you some written by Gentiles. > **[Wikipedia roiled with internal strife over page edits about the...](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/2025/03/07/wikipedia-roiled-with-internal-strife-overpage-editsabout-the-middle-east/81935309007/)** > > Shadow edit campaigns and political disputes have created headaches for overwhelmed editors and administrators. > **[Opinion: Wikipedia has it out for Israel, and we’ve got the data to prove it](https://nationalpost.com/opinion/opinion-wikipedia-bias-is-infecting-our-digital-ecosystem)** > > Our analysis raises the spectre that the system is too readily gamed by those with a sharp axe to wield Or you can see for yourself. Load up the Wikipedia entry for “Zionism” and compare what it looks like now to what it looked like before 10/7 and you’ll see it’s been rewritten to paint Zionism in a negative light. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1904 "2025-12-20T02:40:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > are you seriously claiming that the Holocaust was the only genocide ever in human history? No, I’m claiming it was the worst and that it’s what the word was coined to describe. There have obviously been others. What I’m saying is that if the Gaza war is a genocide, then all war is genocide and the word is just a synonym for war. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1905 "2025-12-20T03:04:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > What I’m saying is that if the Gaza war is a genocide, then all war is genocide and the word is just a synonym for war. …genocide has a very specific [definition](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf), as you’ve been told over and over again. It requires the intent to destroy, **in whole or in part** , a a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. The _intent_ is what matters. The intent to destroy in whole or in part. And what Amnesty International have concluded, along with Human Rights Watch, the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention, the UN Special Committee, and most recently the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, along with a consensus of genocide scholars and academics, is that Israel are committing genocide in Gaza. They have all independently published evidence. I’ve provided them multiple times in other threads, but I’m happy to provide them again here if you like. There is currently an ongoing case bought by South Africa to the International Court of Justice. This isn’t “virtue signalling.” Multiple members of the Israeli government are on record being very clear of their genocidal intent. The siege of Gaza that ultimately resulted in famine in parts of Gaza had no justification. It was only ever going to result in people starving to death. But you know all this. Because I’ve shown you this over and over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1906 "2025-12-20T03:35:01Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …genocide has a very specific definition Yes, it does, and antisemitic politicians don’t get to change it. > **[GENOCIDE Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/genocide)** > > GENOCIDE definition: the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group. See examples of genocide used in a sentence. > **[Definition of GENOCIDE](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/genocide)** > > the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group… See the full definition > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The _intent_ is what matters. And there is no intent, nor is an attempt being made. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And what Amnesty International have concluded, along with Human Rights Watch, the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention, the UN Special Committee, and most recently the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, along with a consensus of genocide scholars and academics, is that Israel are committing genocide in Gaza. Then they are wrong. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > There is currently an ongoing case bought by South Africa Which they are being paid to do by Iran. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > to the International Court of Justice Which is illegitimate. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > This isn’t “virtue signalling.” You’re right. It’s antisemitism. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Multiple members of the Israeli government are on record being very clear of their genocidal intent. The blatherings of backbencher MKs do not constitute government policy. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The siege of Gaza that ultimately resulted in famine in parts of Gaza had no justification. And 10/7 was just a picnic in the park. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > It was only ever going to result in people starving to death. I guess Hamas shouldn’t have started a war against an enemy that outguns and outmans them, then. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1907 "2025-12-20T03:53:43Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Yes, it does, and antisemitic politicians don’t get to change it. > > [GENOCIDE Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/genocide) …what does this even mean? I didn’t cite any “antisemitic politicians.” I cited the genocide convention. You are citing the _dictionary_. The dictionary matches my description. But my cite has actual legal weight. > And there is no intent, nor is an attempt being made. Section D, Expressions of Genocidal Intent against the Palestinian People by Israeli State Officialsand Others, page 59 of the South African submission to the International Court of Justice. > **[South-Africa-v-Israel.pdf](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/South-Africa-v-Israel.pdf)** > > 1521.44 KB > Then they are wrong. LOL. Who do I believe: Amnesty International or some random turd on the internet? I’ll go with Amnesty. > Which they are being paid to do by Iran. Cite please. > Which is illegitimate. Untrue. > You’re right. It’s antisemitism. It’s the truth. Israel are committing genocide in Gaza. > [@Smapti](#): > > The blatherings of backbencher MKs do not constitute government policy. It isn’t just backbencher MKs. And intent can be derived from actions, policy and strategy. > [@Smapti](#): > > And 10/7 was just a picnic in the park. 10/7 was an atrocity and a warcrime, and those in Hamas that were responsible should be held accountable. > [@Smapti](#): > > I guess Hamas shouldn’t have started a war against an enemy that outguns and outmans them, then. Hamas shouldn’t have committed 10/7. We are in 100% agreement. But Israel are responsible for the way they decided to respond to those attacks. Every atrocity the IDF committed is on them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1908 "2025-12-20T04:20:00Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > But Israel are responsible for the way they decided to respond to those attacks. And according to Banquet\_Bear, the way they should have responded is…? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Cite please. > **[Iran and the price of the ANC’s nostalgia | ISS Africa](https://issafrica.org/iss-today/iran-and-the-price-of-the-anc-s-nostalgia)** > > The African National Congress’ friendship with Tehran is becoming the main bugbear in US relations with South Africa. > South Africa’s relations with Iran came under scrutiny after the 7 October 2023 attack on Israel by Hamas, which Iran openly supports. On 22 October, South Africa’s then foreign minister Naledi Pandor visited Tehran and met then president Ebrahim Raisi. At the time, foreign affairs officials told ISS Today she had among other things, delivered an invitation from Ramaphosa to visit South Africa, but that the visit had been called off. > > And then in January 2024, the ANC – which had been flirting with insolvency for years – announced it had managed to stabilise its finances without explaining how. Just days earlier, South Africa had charged Israel with genocide in Gaza before the ICJ. > > The ANC also aroused suspicion by hosting Hamas leaders for a Palestinian solidarity convention in South Africa shortly after the group attacked Israel. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > 10/7 was an atrocity and a warcrime, and those in Hamas that were responsible should be held accountable. So there’s a case against Hamas before the ICJ then, right? …Right? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1909 "2025-12-20T06:58:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And according to Banquet\_Bear, the way they should have responded is…? …they can respond any way they like as long as its in accordance with the Geneva conventions and international humanitarian law. > [@Smapti](#): > > And then in January 2024, the ANC – which had been flirting with insolvency for years – announced it had managed to stabilise its finances without explaining how. Just days earlier, South Africa had charged Israel with genocide in Gaza before the ICJ. This isn’t evidence. It’s a conspiracy theory. > [@Smapti](#): > > So there’s a case against Hamas before the ICJ then, right? > > …Right? Surviving Hamas leadership were indicted by the International Criminal Court. And if a state wants to bring proceedings against Gaza, then the process is right there. They just need to follow the process. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1910 "2025-12-20T07:18:38Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …they can respond any way they like as long as its in accordance with the Geneva conventions and international humanitarian law. That’s what I thought. You have no solutions, only complaints. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > It’s a conspiracy theory. You mean like “Israel is trying to eradicate the Palestinians”? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Surviving Hamas leadership were indicted by the International Criminal Court. So that’s a no, then. I guess nobody offered the ANC enough cash to make it worth their while. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1911 "2025-12-20T07:57:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That’s what I thought. You have no solutions, only complaints. …again: what does this even mean? I think Israel should comply with the Geneva conventions and international humanitarian law. They can wage the war however they want as long as they are in compliance. How is that not a “solution?” > [@Smapti](#): > > You mean like “Israel is trying to eradicate the Palestinians”? The wording of the genocide convention is “destroy, in whole or in part.” South Africa makes the case for that here: > [@South Africa Submission](#): > > Entire multi-generational families have been wiped out completely. Over 355,000 homes equivalent to more than 60 per cent of Gaza’s housing stock in Gaza has been damaged or destroyed.59 1.9 million Palestinians — approximately 85 per cent of the total population — have been internally displaced.60 Many fled the north of the territory to the south, having been ordered to do so by Israel, only to be bombed again in the south, and told to flee once again further south or the south west, where they are reduced to living in makeshift tents in camps with no water, sanitation or other facilities.61 Israel has bombed, shelled and besieged Gaza’s hospitals, with > only 13 out of 36 hospitals partially functional, and no fully functioning hospital left in North Gaza. 62 > Gaza’s healthcare system has all but collapsed, with reports of operations, including amputations and caesarean sections, taking place without anaesthetic.63 > … > Palestinians in Gaza have been killed in their homes, in places where they sought shelter, in hospitals, in UNWRA schools, in > churches, in mosques, and as they tried to find food and water for their families. They have been killed if they failed to evacuate, in the places to which they fled, and even while they attempted to flee along Israeli declared “safe routes”.189 Reports are multiplying of Israeli soldiers performing summary > executions, including of multiple members of the same family — men, women and older people. > … > An estimated 1,779 Palestinian families in Gaza have lost multiple family members, and hundreds of multigenerational families have been killed in their entirety, with no remaining survivors — mothers, fathers, children, siblings, grandparents, aunts, cousins — often all killed together. > … > Doctors, journalists, teachers, academics and other professionals are also being killed at wholly unprecedented rates. To date, Israel has killed: over 311 doctors, nurses and other health workers, including doctors and ambulance drivers killed on duty;208 103 journalists, amounting to over one per > day,209 and more than 73 per cent of the total number of journalists and media workers killed globally in 2023;210 40 civil defence workers — responsible for helping to dig victims out of the rubble — killed while on duty; and over 209 teachers and educational staff.211 144 United Nations employees have also been killed, the “highest number of aid workers killed in UN history in such a short time”. > … > The extreme levels of bombardment and lack of any safe areas are also causing severe mental trauma in the Palestinian population in Gaza. > … > On 9 October 2023, Israel declared a “complete siege” on Gaza, allowing no electricity, no food, no water and no fuel to enter the strip. > … > The majority of the 1.9 million displaced Palestinians in Gaza are seeking shelter in UNRWA facilities, which primarily consist of schools and tents.310 These locations are themselves not safe: to date — and despite Israel having been provided with the coordinates of all United Nations facilities311 — Israel has killed hundreds of Palestinian men, women and children seeking shelter in UNRWA facilities, and injured over a thousand. > … > There have now been more than 238 attacks on ‘healthcare’ in Gaza, in which over 61 hospitals and other healthcare facilities have been damaged or destroyed. > … > On 16 November 2023, 15 United Nations Special Rapporteurs and 21 members of United Nations Working Groups, warning of a “genocide in the making” in Gaza, observed that the level of > destruction that had by then taken place of “housing units, as well as hospitals, schools, mosques, bakeries, water pipes, sewage and electricity networks . . . threatens to make the continuation of Palestinian life in Gaza impossible” > **[South-Africa-v-Israel.pdf](https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/South-Africa-v-Israel.pdf)** > > 1521.44 KB That is only a fraction of the evidence provided for the case for genocide. More at the link. From Ammnesty: > [@](#): > > “For the past two months, Israel has completely cut off the supply of humanitarian aid and other items indispensable to the survival of civilians in a clear and calculated effort to collectively punish over two million civilians and to make Gaza unlivable. This is genocide in action. > **[Israel/OPT: Two months of cruel and inhumane siege are further evidence of...](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2025/05/israel-opt-two-months-of-cruel-and-inhumane-siege-are-further-evidence-of-israels-genocidal-intent-in-gaza/)** > > Israel must immediately end its devastating siege on the occupied Gaza Strip which constitutes a genocidal act, a blatant form of unlawful collective punishment, and the war crime of using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare From Human Rights Watch: > [@](#): > > In the 179-page report, “[Extermination and Acts of Genocide: Israel Deliberately Depriving Palestinians in Gaza of Water](https://www.hrw.org/node/390031),” Human Rights Watch found that Israeli authorities have intentionally deprived Palestinians in Gaza of access to safe water for drinking and sanitation needed for basic human survival. Israeli authorities and forces cut off and later restricted piped water to Gaza; rendered most of Gaza’s water and sanitation infrastructure useless by cutting electricity and restricting fuel; deliberately destroyed and damaged water and sanitation infrastructure and water repair materials; and blocked the entry of critical water supplies. > **[Israel’s Crime of Extermination, Acts of Genocide in Gaza](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/12/19/israels-crime-extermination-acts-genocide-gaza)** > > Israeli authorities have intentionally deprived Palestinian civilians in Gaza of adequate access to water since October 2023, most likely resulting in thousands of deaths and thus committing the crime against humanity of extermination and acts of... From the UN: > [@](#): > > Based on the findings in its reports and several additional cases, the Commission focuses on four categories of punishable acts under article II of the Genocide Convention, namely (i) killing members of the group; (ii) causing serious > bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (iii) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and (iv) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group. > At this time, the Commission has no evidence in relation to the fifth category of act, forcibly transferring children. > **[a-hrc-60-crp-3.pdf](https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session60/advance-version/a-hrc-60-crp-3.pdf)** > > 1058.17 KB Evidence of the first four acts are revealed in the report. I have provided substantial and damming evidence in support of my claim. But your cite for your claim that “South Africa were paid to bring the case to the ICJ by Iran” literally says this: _" The **timing raised suspicions** , and a few commentators **opined** that Iran had paid off the ANC for taking Israel to court. The ANC and government denied this. A Daily Maverick [fact check](https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2024-01-25-iran-fund-south-africa-icj-israel-palestine-fact-check/) **found no evidence of a payoff** …"_ Bolding mine. Some commentators had an opinion. There is no evidence to support this opinion. So what evidence are you talking about again? > [@Smapti](#): > > So that’s a no, then. Obviously, it’s a no. But if Israel or one of its allies has standing, and they have a case, what is stopping them? That’s how the process works. What do you think this proves? It starts with a state deciding to bring an action against another. If nobody wants to do this that isn’t the fault of the court. > [@Smapti](#): > > I guess nobody offered the ANC enough cash to make it worth their while. Conspiracy theory. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1912 "2025-12-20T08:06:33Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …again: what does this even mean? It means what it says. You’re unwilling or incapable of saying what Israel should do or should have done. All you’ve done for two years now is say that every single thing they have done is wrong. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > The wording of the genocide convention is “destroy, in whole or in part.” The wording of the Genocide Convention can kiss my ass. The UN is an illegitimate body and has no right to criticize Israel while it allows Russia to occupy a seat on the Security Council that it is not entitled to and refuses to act on the ACTUAL genocide being committed in Ukraine. I’ll believe there’s a genocide happening in Gaza when you can show me death camps, and mass graves, and soldiers going house to house apprehending everyone they find, and firing squads lining women and children up in front of trenches, and people being “deported” who never show up anywhere else. The acts you describe aren’t genocide. They’re _war_. If what’s happening in Gaza is a genocide, then the Allies committed genocide against Germany in 1945 and the North genocided the South in 1864. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1913 "2025-12-20T08:28:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You’re unwilling or incapable of saying what Israel should do or should have done. …this is a lie. I said Israel could do whatever they liked as long as it’s in compliance with the Geneva conventions and International Humanitarian law. > [@Smapti](#): > > All you’ve done for two years now is say that every single thing they have done is wrong. For two years now, I’ve pointed out warcrimes and atrocities committed by Israel. At its peak Israel were committing multiple atrocities a day. I only ever shared a _fraction_ of all of the evil things they have committed in Gaza and the occupied territories. And they _continue_ to do evil. > [@Smapti](#): > > The wording of the Genocide Convention can kiss my ass. I’m glad you are saying the quiet part out loud now. > [@Smapti](#): > > I’ll believe there’s a genocide happening in Gaza when you can show me death camps, and mass graves, and soldiers going house to house apprehending everyone they find, and firing squads lining women and children up in front of trenches, and people being “deported” who never show up anywhere else. None of these are required under the genocide convention. And its important to understand _why_. _"Adopted in the aftermath of the Second World War, the Genocide Convention built up on the statement famously included in the Nuremberg judgement of 1946 that_ _crimes are committed by persons, not by abstract entities._ _Accordingly, the Genocide Convention rightly treated atrocities against certain groups as outright crimes, whether committed in times of peace or time of war. Crimes are committed by individuals, who must be held accountable, regardless of “whether they are constitutionally responsible rulers, public officials or private individuals”. "_ It shouldn’t matter if there are “firing squads lining up women and children in trenches” or if people are forced to “run the gauntlet” as they had to in Gaza as they tried to get food from the GHF. 2500 people were massacred running that gauntlet. Thousands more were injured. That it doesn’t fit your “narrow little box” of what genocide is doesn’t matter because the genocide convention _purposefully_ isn’t that narrow. > **[171208-ICC-President-remarks-at-Genocide-Convention-Commemoration.pdf](https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/itemsDocuments/171208-ICC-President-remarks-at-Genocide-Convention-Commemoration.pdf)** > [@Smapti](#): > > If what’s happening in Gaza is a genocide, then the Allies committed genocide against Germany in 1945 and the North genocided the South in 1864. Again: you are missing _intent_ to destroy, in _whole or in part_, a particular national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. The allies didn’t intend to destroy Germans just for being German. Intent and the target make the difference. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1914 "2025-12-20T08:33:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > the ACTUAL genocide being committed in Ukraine. Can you show us the death camps, and mass graves, and soldiers going house to house apprehending everyone they find, and firing squads lining women and children up in front of trenches, and people being “deported” who never show up anywhere else in Ukraine? Or, as a powerful demon controlling wizard put it, What I’m saying is that if the Ukraine war is a genocide, then all war is genocide and the word is just a synonym for war. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1915 "2025-12-20T08:33:34Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I said Israel could do whatever they liked as long as it’s in compliance with the Geneva conventions and International Humanitarian law. Such as…? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Again: you are missing _intent_ to destroy, in _whole or in part_, a particular national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. Which Israel does not possess. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1916 "2025-12-20T08:41:53Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Can you show us the death camps, and mass graves, and soldiers going house to house apprehending everyone they find, and firing squads lining women and children up in front of trenches, and people being “deported” who never show up anywhere else in Ukraine? Why, yes, I can! Death camps; > **[Russian filtration camps for Ukrainians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_filtration_camps_for_Ukrainians)** > > Filtration camps, also referred to as concentration camps, are camps used by Russian forces during the Russian invasion of Ukraine to register, interrogate, and detain Ukrainian citizens in regions under Russian occupation before transferring them into Russia, sometimes as part of forced population transfers. Filtration camp detainees undergo a system of security checks and personal data collection. Detainees are subject to widespread torture, killings, rape, st The number of Ukrainian citizens r... Mass graves; > **[Izium mass graves](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izium_mass_graves)** > > .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct,.mw-parser-output .geo-inline-hidden{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}49°12′46″N 37°15′25″E / 49.21278°N 37.25694°E / 49.21278; 37.25694 > Northern front Mass depopulation; [https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/12/un-report-details-summary-executions-civilians-russian-troops-northern](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/12/un-report-details-summary-executions-civilians-russian-troops-northern) Mass execution of civilians; > **[Bucha massacre | Research Starters | EBSCO Research](https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/military-history-and-science/bucha-massacre)** > > The Bucha Massacre refers to a series of alleged war crimes that took place in March 2022 in the Ukrainian city of Bucha during the ongoing conflict between Ukraine and Russia. Following Russia's invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022, Russian... Disappearances disguised as deportations; > **[Child abductions in the Russo-Ukrainian war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_war)** > > During the Russo-Ukrainian War, Russia has forcibly transferred almost 20,000 Ukrainian children to areas under its control, assigned them Russian citizenship, forcibly adopted them into Russian families, and created obstacles for their reunification with their parents and homeland. The United Nations has stated that these deportations constitute war crimes. The International Criminal Court (ICC) has issued arrest warrants for President of Russia Vladimir Putin (who has explici Ukrainian chil... > **[Invisible Scars: Ukraine’s Disappeared amid Russian Aggression |...](https://www.ictj.org/latest-news/invisible-scars-ukraine%E2%80%99s-disappeared-amid-russian-aggression)** > > The numerous atrocities committed by Russia in Ukraine have been part of the former's aggression since its initial invasion of the Crimea and Donbas regions in 2014, though they have skyrocketed in number and severity since the full-scale invasion in... Russia is committing an actual genocide in Ukraine. It has been attempting to distract westerners from this by creating a narrative about an imaginary genocide in Gaza. It is apparently working. [https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/06/22/from-gaza-to-global-south-how-russia-weaponizes-neocolonial-narratives/](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/06/22/from-gaza-to-global-south-how-russia-weaponizes-neocolonial-narratives/) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1917 "2025-12-20T08:44:21Z")
So, now Wikipedia is a reliable source! ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1918 "2025-12-20T08:52:04Z")
In general, it is. On matters regarding Israel, it has not been since 10/7. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1919 "2025-12-20T08:58:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Such as…? …do you not understand what “whatever they liked” means? My constraints are the tactics and strategy need to be in compliance with the Geneva Conventions and international humanitarian law. What don’t you understand here? > Which Israel does not possess. The South African case to the ICJ, Ammnesty International, HRW, The Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel have all presented evidence, both in words, and examining the actions, strategy and tactics used since October the 7th, that suggest yes they do. > [@Smapti](#): > > Death camps; > > [Russian filtration camps for Ukrainians - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_filtration_camps_for_Ukrainians) If this counts: then so does Sde Teiman and the other network of torture camps. > **[Sde Teiman detention camp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sde_Teiman_detention_camp)** > > Sde Teiman (Hebrew: שדה תימן) is an Israeli military base located in the Negev desert near the border with the Gaza Strip. During the Gaza war, its use as a detention camp doubled and gained international attention for its systemic human rights violations against its Palestinian detainees from the strip. > Multiple released Palestinian detainees have testified they and others, including children, were subjected to rape, gang-rape, other forms of sexual violence as well as psychological and physic... > **[Israeli prisons and detention camps designed to torture Palestinian detainees...](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israeli-prisons-and-detention-camps-designed-torture-palestinian-detainees)** > > News and Press Release in English on occupied Palestinian territory about Protection and Human Rights; published on 11 Jan 2025 by Euro-Med Monitor > **[‘Cruellest forms of torture’: freed Palestinians describe horrors of Israeli...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/oct/14/freed-palestinians-describe-horrors-of-israeli-jail)** > > Men who were held in Nafha prison say they were brutally beaten, bound at the hands and feet, verbally abused, allowed to contract fungal and skin diseases, and assaulted with loud music for up to two days straight > [@Smapti](#): > > Mass graves; > > [Izium mass graves - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izium_mass_graves) Mass graves in Gaza: > **[Bulldozed corpses and unmarked graves, CNN investigates the fate of Gaza’s...](https://edition.cnn.com/2025/12/03/middleeast/bulldozed-corpses-gaza-israel-zikim-aid-intl-vis-invs)** > > Ammar Wadi knew he was risking his life when he set out to get a bag of flour for his family from an aid truck near the Zikim crossing into Gaza in June. Massacres: > **[Evidence of ‘execution-style’ killings of Palestinian aid workers by Israeli...](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/apr/02/evidence-execution-style-killings-palestinian-workers-israeli-forces-doctor-says)** > > Forensic consultant says multiple bullets were used from short range in attack that has caused global outrage > **[Al-Shifa Medical Complex witnesses one of the largest massacres in...](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/al-shifa-medical-complex-witnesses-one-largest-massacres-palestinian-history-enar)** > > News and Press Release in Arabic on occupied Palestinian territory about Health and Protection and Human Rights; published on 1 Apr 2024 by Euro-Med Monitor (spoiled because it has photos of dead people) [2025 Gaza Strip aid distribution killings - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Gaza_Strip_aid_distribution_killings) > **[Flour Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flour_Massacre)** > > Background > October 7 attacksMilitary engagements > **[Nuseirat rescue and massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuseirat_rescue_and_massacre)** > > On 8 June 2024, during an operation to rescue hostages held in the Nuseirat refugee camp, the Israeli military killed at least 276 people and injured over 698, according to the Gaza Health Ministry and Palestinian health officials.\[b\] The operation's objective was to recover hostages taken during the 7 October Hamas-led attack on Israel. The Israeli military acknowledged fewer than 100 Palestinian deaths. > Four Israeli captives were rescued—Noa Argamani, Shlomi Ziv, Almog Meir Jan, and Andrey ... > [@Smapti](#): > > It has been attempting to distract westerners from this by creating a narrative about an imaginary genocide in Gaza. The only people attempting to distract from genocide are genocide deniers like **you**. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2025, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907/1920 "2025-12-20T09:06:27Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > If this counts: then so does Sde Teiman Which, per your cite, resulted in multiple people going to prison and facing criminal charges. Israel holds people criminally responsible when they cross the line. No intent to commit genocide. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …do you not understand what “whatever they liked” means? On this week’s episode of _Quantum Leap_, Banquet\_Bear has leapt into the body of Benjamin Netenyahu. It is October 8th, 2023. The IDF wants to know how they should respond to the attack. What is your response? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=95) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smapti-is-pitted/688907.md?page=97)