Smapti is Pitted

At least we’re learning a lot about Smapti. According to him, slaves were wrong to disobey their masters. Slaves were wrong if they resisted rape. Slaves were wrong if they tried to free themselves. WWII German soldiers and officials were wrong if they disobeyed orders and saved Jewish lives. Jews were wrong if they disobeyed authorities’ orders to submit to imprisonment and murder. Martin Luther King Jr. and his followers were wrong to commit civil disobedience.

In short, don’t be close to Smapti in the real world. He is a dangerous person who cannot be trusted.

It is a defense unless the people responsible for your sentencing decide that it is not. I say that it is. Some other body of law may disagree, and my assertion to the contrary is unlikely to sway them.

Did you suppose I was asserting that it was an immutable law of the universe that superior orders is a valid defense? I was only stating my opinion. That’s all that anyone is ever doing when they talk about such abstract subjective constructs. There is no such thing as objective justice or good or evil or morality.

I think you’d find me to be a very polite and agreeable person.

Wrong again. Soldiers are specifically instructed in the duty to refuse unlawful orders.

And they’re also instructed that ultimately it’s a court-martial that will decide if they were right or not.

Probably so – especially if I wore a uniform, presented official papers, and asked you which of your neighbors were members of a specific ethnic or religious group, and where were they hiding.

Ah, so manmade laws are ephemeral, and only the immutable laws of the universe are to be trusted. Gotcha.

Well, then, it’s a good thing that the immutable laws of mathematics are on the side of privacy.

In the US, military personnel take an oath to obey only lawful orders. It absolutely is the role of US military personnel to determine whether an order is lawful or not.

I did so multiple times per day during my service. I was lucky in that all the orders given to me were lawful.

The laws of mathematics are apolitical, and your continued support for drug dealers, pedophiles, cyber-con artists, and terrorists has been noted.

And if you had refused to obey an order that you deemed to be unlawful, you would have been court-martialed, correct?

Er… ah… huh… how can they be “right or not” about a decision they don’t get to make??

Error… Error… Norman, co-ordinate…

Your direct and admitted support for the pedophiles and terrorists among slave-owners and war criminals is noted by many, many more here than your false accusation in this post.

According to the UCMJ, you are very very wrong.

I “support” no such thing.

I acknowledge that it was lawful.

Yeah, but in actual practice they’re really fucked coming and going, because the only place where a grunt will ever get credit rather than strict punishment for disobeying or refusing to immediately and unquestioningly comply with an unlawful order is over the course of the opposing army’s post-victory round of war trials.

Which was a pretty awful situation, back in the day. Of course, in these hallowed times of the all-volunteer force, it’s ultimately their own fault for agreeing to putting themselves in this godawful position to begin with. Spoilers : I don’t grok enlistees. Like, at all.

But of course, back in Smapti’s world authority should never be questioned and the validity of rebellion is only determined post-facto and contingent on its success. So blindly agreeing to gas the Jews is right, and refusing then getting shot for your trouble is wrong.
Ain’t it a beautiful mind ?

Not necessarily. My superior may have been court-martialed instead. If my superior officer ordered me to kill someone due to their ethnicity, and I refused, I would not be court-martialed, and he certainly would be.

What, according to the UCMJ, happens to a soldier who refuses to obey an order?

Yes, but if a bunch of guys with guns tell Smapti that might DOESN’T make right, then he’s morally obligated to accept their reasoning. After all, they’re the guys with guns.

Smapti, it turns out that here in the United States a bunch of us have gotten together and decided that might doesn’t make right. And we have the guns and force to back up our opinions. And we’ve passed laws saying that soldiers have the obligation to disobey unlawful orders, and if the soldiers don’t agree we’ll use force to make them agree.

So your moral code that would make you a good Nazi or Mongol or Overseer should also make you a good American.

We all agree that might doesn’t make right. We outnumber you, and we’re armed and dangerous. So why don’t you shut up and agree?

Projecting again?

Who is the supporter?

“You! Go sell that kid some crack!”
Smapti: Yes, sir!
SteveMB: Screw you!

“You! Go screw that kid!”
Smapti: Yes, sir!
SteveMB: Screw you!

“You! Go hack that kid’s account!”
Smapti: Yes, sir!
SteveMB: Screw you!

“You! Go strap a bomb to that kid!”
Smapti: Yes, sir!
SteveMB: Screw you!

You stated that it was immoral to resist such behavior. Telling a young woman she should submit to rape if the rapist is her master or a policeman is absolutely supporting the rapist.