# Smapti's Continuing Adventures in Judaism: First Seder **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 3, 2026, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989 "2026-04-03T09:34:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2026, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/61 "2026-04-06T17:47:55Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > On a related note, the Chabad sect, which is all about proselytizing, albeit only to other Jews I was in NYC last fall with SunWife, we were walking through Union Square (while a farmer’s market was there) to make a visit (pilgrimage) to the Strand. Both on the way there and while returning, we had two different someones approach us and ask if we were Jewish. Both said thank you and ended their interaction when we said no. Likely Chabad sighting? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2026, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/62 "2026-04-06T17:49:45Z")
Beards and black hats? Almost certainly. If you had said yes they would have tried to invite you to something. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2026, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/63 "2026-04-06T17:55:24Z")
IIRC they were both women, hatless. The thing I wondered at the time if it was a Jews for Jesus outreach. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2026, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/64 "2026-04-06T19:46:12Z")
Likely to put on tefillin, or hear the shofar (at Rosh Hashanah) or shake a lulav (at Sukkot). (I have it on good authority that they don’t like being asked “Why, are you?”) ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2026, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/65 "2026-04-06T20:52:15Z")
There are decent Israeli Pesach wines. If it’s fall and a Chabadnik asks if you’re Jewish, they might invite you to Chabad for the holidays, but what they want more is for you to wave the Four Species and say a prayer. Around where I grew up there were interfaith buildings and no buildings that housed only one faith or denomination. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2026, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/66 "2026-04-06T20:55:49Z")
> [@susan](#): > > There are decent Israeli Pesach wines. I’ve had perfectly okay kosher wine. But if i get non-kosher wine, i can get a solid wine really cheap, or an excellent wine. I’ve never had either of those in “kosher”. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2026, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/67 "2026-04-07T00:56:13Z")
So, what’s actually required in a Seder? If you don’t want to spend many hours at the service? I see some answers online, but the most authoritative seem thin. But maybe that’s really all you need: Torah requirements: - Eating the paschal lamb (something we haven’t been able to do since the destruction of the second Temple) - Eating matzo - Relating the story of passover Rabbinic requirements: 1. Drinking four cups of wine 2. Eating bitter herbs 3. Reciting Psalms of praise 4. Eating the afikomen (an extra piece of matzah for dessert as a reminder of the Passover offering) 5. Demonstrating acts of freedom (reclining when we eat) Interestingly, my family usually skips the psalms of praise, although they are in our Haggadah. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2026, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/68 "2026-04-07T02:57:51Z")
You have to sing Had Gadya, though, right? 🐐 🪙 🪙 👨‍🍼 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2026, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/69 "2026-04-07T04:40:20Z")
Other things we do: Dip parsley in salt water Ask the four questions Talk about the four types of children asking questions Talk about all the stuff on the seder plate Eat a hillel sandwich. (Some actual calories in that one.) Hide the afikomen Eat a festive, multi-course meal, with Hard boiled eggs Matzo ball soup Gefilte fish (well, it’s offered. No one has eaten it since my mom died.) Some special main course Special desserts (Hey, the food matters!) Hunt for the afikomen Read some more stuff, but pretty abbreviated at this point Open the door for Elijah Chant “who knows one” Chant “an only kid” (yes, we chant in English, we don’t sing it in Hebrew) Talk about where we want the seder to be next year. (We’ve done this ever since the year my mother hosted, but loudly said, “next year in [town where my sister lives]” where the book said “next year in Jerusalem”. ) Sing “America the Beautiful” Split up the leftovers. I seem to have left both the wine and the charoset at my sister’s house. 😢 ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2026, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/70 "2026-04-07T15:50:17Z")
According to the Talmud, the 15 Steps of the Seder are: Bareich — the regular blessing over the first cup of wine. Urchatz — wash hands WITHOUT the usual blessing for doing so. Karpas — eat a green veggie, usually parsley dipped in salt water. We like to expand this into a full course of crudites and dips, since dinner is still a ways off. Yachats — break a matzo in two, the larger of which becomes the afikoman. Maggid — this is the bulk of the haggadah, reading about the Exodus, four questions, Dayyenu, explaining the seder plate, etc. Second glass of wine. Note that, other than eating the meal, this is the only step that takes more than a couple minutes, so the length of your seder depends mostly on how long you spend here. Rachtzah — wash hands again, with blessing. Motzi — pick up a matzo and recite the standard blessing over bread. Matzo — Then, recite the matzo-specific blessing and eat some matzo. Maror – eat bitter herbs (typically horseradish) Koreych – eat the “Hillel sandwich”, charoset and maror on matzo. Shulchan Oreich – the actual meal! Tzafun – locate and eat the afikomen, formally ending the meal Bareich – recite the standard grace after meals, drink the third cup of wine Hallel – Traditionally, recite Psalms 113-118. This unit is called “Hallel” and also pops up in the liturgy during holidays. Many people sing other festive songs instead of or in addition to the psalms, such as “Chad Gadya” or “Who Knows One”. Fourth cup of wine. (almost everyone will also open the door for Elijah somewhere around here, but that’s a medieval innovation, so not listed) Nirtzah – Affirm that you have, in fact, completed the seder. Traditionally end with “Next year in Jerusalem”. At our seder we preface each step by loudly and rapidly chanting the order up to the point that we’ve reached; helps to keep things lively. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2026, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/71 "2026-04-08T01:00:29Z")
Here’s a pretty interesting article about the origins of Passover and the Seder. > **[What Is the Passover Seder, Really? A Historical Reconstruction](https://eliezeraryeh.substack.com/p/what-is-the-passover-seder-really?triedRedirect=true)** > > From the barley harvest to the Greek symposium to an argument with Christianity ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2026, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/72 "2026-04-08T01:11:54Z")
Can one use a checklist 'cause I don’t think I’d get all of those right. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2026, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/73 "2026-04-08T01:21:59Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Can one use a checklist 'cause I don’t think I’d get all of those right That’s what the haggadah is - a book that lists the steps in order, the prayers, what to say, and what to do when. There are literally hundreds of different versions available for different strains of Judaism and different niche interests (there’s even a Taylor Swift-themed one!), but they all follow the same basic points. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2026, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/74 "2026-04-08T04:40:49Z")
And in addition to the Haggadah, i have two friend who recently told me that they had a list of the steps on a white board, and one of the kids would run to the white board and cross off each step as they completed it. Seders aren’t rigid formal things, they exist to “teach your children”, so they usually have a lot of interactive stuff designed to appeal to kids. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2026, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/75 "2026-04-08T05:03:04Z")
Thanks! That was a really interesting read. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2026, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/76 "2026-04-08T18:18:45Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Can one use a checklist 'cause I don’t think I’d get all of those right. This is why the Jews bring an instruction manual called the Haggadah to the festivities. And if you still don’t get it entirely right… never heard of anyone being smited on a account of that. You just have a good laugh, find your place, and keep going. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2026, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/77 "2026-04-08T20:45:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Some small Jewish communities have been known to meet in space borrowed from Christian churches, as well as after natural disasters, fires, and so forth. Wouldn’t surprise me if in a small rural community the local Jews do that routinely, or meet in some community center, or school building, or the like. Or someone’s home. My cousin’s daughter had her Bat Mitzvah in the Quaker Meeting House at Haverford College. The Reconstructionist congregation rents the space for Friday evening and Saturday services and they have a portable ark with Torah scrolls that they bring every week. This was over 30 years ago, so they might have a permanent building by now. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/78 "2026-04-09T00:55:38Z")
Nmind ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/79 "2026-04-09T03:54:02Z")
Thanks! Should i be embarrassed that i don’t usually do them all? > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > According to the Talmud, the 15 Steps of the Seder are: > > Bareich — the regular blessing over the first cup of wine. We do this > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Urchatz — wash hands WITHOUT the usual blessing for doing so. We don’t do this. I expect everyone to wash their hands before sitting down to eat. I don’t know if that’s a Jewish thing, or a “my father was a doctor” thing. Maybe both. And i really appreciate that you get a clean washcloth at the start of the meal at Japanese restaurant. But I’ve never ritually washed my hands in my own home, or the home of any relative. (Even the conservative ones.) I’ve only done it a handful of times, visiting Orthodox friends, and a couple of times in Israel because the stuff was at the sink where they also had soap. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Karpas — eat a green veggie, usually parsley dipped in salt water. We like to expand this into a full course of crudites and dips, since dinner is still a ways off. We do this > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Yachats — break a matzo in two, the larger of which becomes the afikoman. Huh, this is it’s own step? We do this. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Maggid — this is the bulk of the haggadah, reading about the Exodus, four questions, Dayyenu, explaining the seder plate, etc. Second glass of wine. Note that, other than eating the meal, this is the only step that takes more than a couple minutes, so the length of your seder depends mostly on how long you spend here. My son has an Arab friend named Maggid. He came to my New Year’s Eve party a few times. I wonder what it means. Anyway, this is what I think of as the core of the Seder. Yes, we do this. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Rachtzah — wash hands again, with blessing. Nope > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Motzi — pick up a matzo and recite the standard blessing over bread. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Matzo — Then, recite the matzo-specific blessing and eat some matzo. Well, we do these, but i would never have thought of it as two separate sections. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Maror – eat bitter herbs (typically horseradish) We do this. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Koreych – eat the “Hillel sandwich”, charoset and maror on matzo. We spend some time on this, because it comes early in our service, before a lot of the stuff you list in Maggid. And it’s an opportunity to have a solid snack. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Shulchan Oreich – the actual meal! Well, of course! We lavish attention on this part! > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Tzafun – locate and eat the afikomen, formally ending the meal Yup > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Bareich – recite the standard grace after meals, drink the third cup of wine We have an extremely abbreviated grace, but we do include a little of it, and the third glass. Surprised these are lumped together. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Hallel – Traditionally, recite Psalms 113-118. This unit is called “Hallel” and also pops up in the liturgy during holidays. Many people sing other festive songs instead of or in addition to the psalms, such as “Chad Gadya” or “Who Knows One”. Fourth cup of wine. (almost everyone will also open the door for Elijah somewhere around here, but that’s a medieval innovation, so not listed) Hmm. That’s all one bit? I was feeling bad about routinely skipping the Hallel, which is in my Haggadah, but we generally ignore it. But we definitely sing festive songs and drink the last cup of wine. (Or grape juice by then.) > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Nirtzah – Affirm that you have, in fact, completed the seder. Traditionally end with “Next year in Jerusalem”. Interesting that this is its own step. I guess I’ll leave this in. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > At our seder we preface each step by loudly and rapidly chanting the order up to the point that we’ve reached; helps to keep things lively. I’m surprised how popular it is to do this. It suggests your Seder is on the long side. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2026, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989/80 "2026-04-09T06:49:04Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > My son has an Arab friend named Maggid. He came to my New Year’s Eve party a few times. I wonder what it means. “Teacher”. The “Maggid” step in the Haggadah is about teaching the Passover story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaptis-continuing-adventures-in-judaism-first-seder/1028989.md?page=5)