# "Smart" cars **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 24, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130 "2012-06-24T05:58:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/21 "2012-06-24T18:47:16Z")
Why can’t we get the 70MPG European diesel engine version? ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/22 "2012-06-24T18:58:58Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Why can’t we get the 70MPG European diesel engine version? Most of Europe has pretty lax emissions laws compared to the US, most of those diesel engines can not meet the EPA requirements. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/23 "2012-06-24T19:28:30Z")
Horrible POS, unrelaible and uncomfortable. And, they don’t even really get that good gas mileage. At least the Fiats are cute. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/24 "2012-06-24T19:31:33Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > It’s easy to find parking spots when your car is tiny. Who cares what the fuel economy is - you have to be able to park the car when you get to your destination. A spot is a spot. The Smart is about the same width as many subcompacts, so you have no better luck squeezing into a spot where there’s some huge SUV taking up more than a space. Sure they are shorter, but that doesn’t help when lot spaces are measured by width and street spaces are marked out. Legally, even if two Smart cars would fit lengthwise into a street spot, they would get ticketed anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/25 "2012-06-24T19:53:14Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > It’s easy to find parking spots when your car is tiny. Who cares what the fuel economy is - you have to be able to park the car when you get to your destination. Yup, it’s all about the parking. I’ve got a friend who lives on the Balboa Peninsula who owns one and parking is a real bitch. I’d consider getting one if I lived there, San Francisco, or NYC. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/26 "2012-06-24T20:46:48Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] A spot is a spot. The Smart is about the same width as many subcompacts, so you have no better luck squeezing into a spot where there’s some huge SUV taking up more than a space. Sure they are shorter, but that doesn’t help when lot spaces are measured by width and street spaces are marked out. Legally, even if two Smart cars would fit lengthwise into a street spot, they would get ticketed anyway. [/QUOTE] I’m guessing you haven’t parked in San Francisco neighborhoods very often. Parking is not metered or marked, and it’s all about finding a space that your car will legally fit into without blocking any part of a driveway, hydrant or crosswalk, lest you return and find you’ve been towed. More than once, heck, probably more than 100 times, I’ve wanted the ability to push some inconsiderate #%?&'s car a couple inches so mine would fit. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/27 "2012-06-24T21:09:51Z")
A Prius is not much more money, but gets better mileage and can carry about 2.5x the people and (I dunno) 3x the cargo (or the same mount of people and 10x the cargo\*, ). Takes up more parking room though. Brian - I can carry my 17+’ Kayak on my Prius, I don’t think that would work with a smart car ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/28 "2012-06-25T01:30:32Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Most of Europe has pretty lax emissions laws compared to the US, most of those diesel engines can not meet the EPA requirements. The US emissions regulations for diesels are different, but it’s hard to say they’re really “stricter” anymore. The issue is that a comparably-performing diesel engine is a fair bit more expensive than a gas engine and the car makers don’t think that American new car buyers are going to be interested in them with our low fuel prices. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/29 "2012-06-25T02:26:33Z")
> [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > I drove one a while back. Hated it. The build quality seemed poor, it had rattles and road noise you’d expect from a much older car. > > The transmission is a joke, it is essentially a manual transmission that a computer controls(poorly). It never shifts when you expect it to, and will slam into gear sometimes. Manual mode is even worse, since you can’t control the clutch, it slips if you don’t let off the gas after every shift. > > A Toyota Corolla is around the same price, and gets almost as many mpg(27/34 vs 33/39). A Corolla is faster, more reliable, (arguably) better looking, and safer in a crash. It also has rear seats and a trunk. I would agree with this. We had a couple on the used car line a couple of years back. Horrible cars IMHO. OH, and before everyone goes ga-ga over 70MPG, remember two things 1. That is Imperial gallons that are a fair bit bigger than the gallons us 'Mericans use. 2. Europe does not use the same test cycle as the EPA, so any comparison is apples to oranges. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/30 "2012-06-25T02:51:26Z")
> [@breezman](#): > > What are you used to driving? I ask because the Prius, at about 3000 is a pretty heavy car. Accords, Impalas, and such are heavier, but only by about 400 or 500 lbs. I drive a heavy full size sedan. With me driving and all the crap in the trunk, it’s probably over 4k. And it has a tall and wide profile so I don’t really feel other vehicles unless I get passed by a semi going way too fast. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/31 "2012-06-25T12:06:12Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > The US emissions regulations for diesels are different, but it’s hard to say they’re really “stricter” anymore. The issue is that a comparably-performing diesel engine is a fair bit more expensive than a gas engine and the car makers don’t think that American new car buyers are going to be interested in them with our low fuel prices. Wasn’t there an issue, a few years back, where the diesel fuel itself wasn’t the same in North America vs Europe? So that an engine that was clean-burning in Europe would pollute more in N.A. ? There was talk of adapting the North American refineries, but of course there’s little incentive to invest in a refinery that will improve the fleet’s fuel efficiency… ETA: Did a quick Google on that, apparently it’s the sulphur levels which were unregulated in North America 10 years ago. Regulations have apparently improved since then so that it may no longer be an issue. ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/32 "2012-06-25T12:59:51Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > The US emissions regulations for diesels are different, but it’s hard to say they’re really “stricter” anymore. The issue is that a comparably-performing diesel engine is a fair bit more expensive than a gas engine and the car makers don’t think that American new car buyers are going to be interested in them with our low fuel prices. Current Eurozone emissions laws let a diesel engine produce 0.18 grams of nitrogen oxides per kilometer, ([Cite,](http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php)), dropping to 0.08 grams per kilometer in 2014. California (the largest car market in the US plus a bunch of other states that follow CARB’s rules) only allows [0.2 grams of NOX per MILE](http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_ca.php), (curses on them for mixing standard and metric) which works out to 0.124 grams of NOX per km. Given that diesel are generally bad on Nox production, I would say that is a lot stricter. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/33 "2012-06-25T13:19:46Z")
It’s not that it’s stricter, it’s that it has a different goal. The primary aim of European emissions regulations is to reduce carbon dioxide production. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/34 "2012-06-25T14:57:12Z")
> [@RandomLetters](#): > > Current Eurozone emissions laws let a diesel engine produce 0.18 grams of nitrogen oxides per kilometer, ([Cite,](http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php)), dropping to 0.08 grams per kilometer in 2014. California (the largest car market in the US plus a bunch of other states that follow CARB’s rules) only allows [0.2 grams of NOX per MILE](http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_ca.php), (curses on them for mixing standard and metric) which works out to 0.124 grams of NOX per km. Given that diesel are generally bad on Nox production, I would say that is a lot stricter. And the carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons are slightly stricter in Europe and the particulates very much so. Like I said, they’re different. This is an issue not because the US’s standards are especially difficult to meet, but because they can’t just use an off the shelf international version of an engine/smog combo. Since they don’t think they can sell many of them, they don’t want to bother with the expense of creating a US-spec diesel version. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/35 "2012-06-25T17:24:57Z")
My mom’s 15-year-old Saturn station wagon gets better mileage than a Smart, was cheaper, and can carry four or five people, a dog, and some luggage. It seems to me that parking space is the _only_ thing that the Smart has going for it, and it’s hard for me to accept that that’s worth the price and other incoveniences. ---
**Author:** ![Jennmonkye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/278dde/32.png) [@Jennmonkye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennmonkye)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/36 "2012-06-27T00:39:08Z")
I’ve had a smart for 4 years next month. In Omaha. In the snow. Love it. I’ve driven it lots on all types of roads, but for the most part do 99.9% city driving since I live downtown. Would buy another one if I needed to, but will probably upgrade to a Boxster for the next car (I love the Porsches!) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/37 "2012-06-27T00:52:11Z")
My 2010 4 door Honda Insight hatchback gets better mileage than those little 2 passenger sardine tins. 2013 Smart Car: [Gas Mileage of 2013 Vehicles by smart](http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymake/smart2013.shtml) > [@](#): > > 34 City > 36 Combined > 38 Highway 2010 Honda Insight: [Gas Mileage of 2010 Honda Insight](http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2010_Honda_Insight.shtml) > [@](#): > > 40 City > 41 Combined > 43 Highway ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/38 "2012-06-27T17:21:52Z")
Or for that matter if you do mostly highway driving, a $20,000 Honda Civic gets 39MPG highway, and there is no hybrid system to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/39 "2012-06-27T17:34:40Z")
Hey what about the Fiat 500? I’m starting to see that almost as often as the Smart car. > [@Pitchmeister](#): > > (And also, Americans, what’s up with all those Scions? Yuck!) > [@Pitchmeister](#): > > They look so bizarre! I absolutely love my Scion XB. The square shape is actually the best thing about it, because it means that you can have a small car and still have plenty of room. I’m a big guy and I need my space. I don’t find Corollas or Priuses or even a Jeep Liberty to be very comfortable. I feel great in my Scion XB. I’ve also driven a Nissan Cube, which was okay but not as nice as my Scion. The look has grown on me. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130/40 "2012-06-27T17:47:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Hey what about the Fiat 500? I’m starting to see that almost as often as the Smart car. What about it? The 500 is an excellent small car, unlike the Fortwo. It’s also quite good looking, unlike the Fortwo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smart-cars/626130.md?page=3)