# Smaug survives Bilbo's quest. What does Gandalf do about it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 25, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432 "2010-01-25T22:32:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/21 "2010-01-26T17:46:42Z")
An interesting parallel in Wagner, where the dragon Fafner held the ring in his hoard until killed by Siegfried. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/22 "2010-01-26T17:53:52Z")
Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/23 "2010-01-26T18:14:14Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > An offshoot question-suppose Mister Baggins is killed by Smaug, who then has the One Ring. Would he notice its unique nature? Be tempted? Or just consider it part of his hoard until the Nazgul come looking for it (and possibly get roasted-Smaug is Not A Man either, after all). Don’t they mention in LOTR that the only ways to destroy the ring are a) Mt. Doom or b) get a dragon to eat it, but choice b) is discounted since all the dragons are dead. Conceivably, if smaug had eaten Bilbo, ring and all, the entireity of LOTR would’ve been unnecessary. Also its fun to picture Gandalf kicking himself at the beginning of LOTR when he’d actually had the One Ring and one of only two things in the world that could destroy it in the same room back during The Hobbit, but he hadn’t taken advantage of it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/24 "2010-01-26T18:21:24Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Don’t they mention in LOTR that the only ways to destroy the ring are a) Mt. Doom or b) get a dragon to eat it, but choice b) is discounted since all the dragons are dead. Conceivably, if smaug had eaten Bilbo, ring and all, the entireity of LOTR would’ve been unnecessary. Not quite. Gandalf says that some of the Great Rings had been eaten by dragons and thus destroyed (presumably be means those worn by Dwarves), but that no dragon in existence burned hot enough to melt the One. Apparently he had seen the specs for Sauron’s ring, obtained with Barudur was overrun at the end of the Second Age. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/25 "2010-01-26T23:31:15Z")
Yes, but if Smaug eats it the effect is the same-it’s out of reach of pretty much everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/26 "2010-01-26T23:53:16Z")
In the short term, maybe, but then, so would solutions like throwing it into the sea. Eventually, though, it’d turn up again. And even if it’s out of reach, Sauron without direct access to the Ring was still strong enough to pretty well mop up the entire free world. The only way to stop him was to actually destroy the blasted thing. ---
**Author:** ![MeDrewNotYou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@MeDrewNotYou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeDrewNotYou)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/27 "2010-01-27T00:25:02Z")
More to subscribe to the thread than anything else, but… I think Skald’s last suggestion in the OP is most likely. Dain has a claim on Erebor, especially after Thorin dies. Gandalf would presumably retrieve the map and key (pretty easily from the spiders, or with some persuasion from the elves, alternatively the new plan might not even need them) and let Dain or his designees\* take a crack at things. I just can’t imagine Gandalf not having a backup plan in such a risky situation. \*-IIRC, Dain is already sitting pretty in the Iron Hills, so he might just commission an expedition to handle things and make Erebor a province, or even relocate there. After all, it does seem the choicest place in ME after Moria. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/28 "2010-01-27T00:38:53Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Yes, but if Smaug eats it the effect is the same-it’s out of reach of pretty much everyone. I think that depends on the digestive cycle of dragons. Presumably its slow since they don’t feed very often, but eventually what was left of poor Bilbo would come out the other end, and The Ring with it. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/29 "2010-01-27T00:42:14Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Yes, but if Smaug eats it the effect is the same-it’s out of reach of pretty much everyone. I’m not sure Tolkien ever addressed the specifics of Dragon’s digestive tracts, but presumably if Smaug’s digestive system couldn’t destroy the ring, it would work its way out eventually. Wouldn’t want to be the dark servant of Sauron that had to go digging through dragon poop to find it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/30 "2010-01-27T00:51:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Wouldn’t want to be the dark servant of Sauron that had to go digging through dragon poop to find it, though. Fewmets. The word for dragon poop is fewmets. It’s such a great word that comes up so seldom, it’s a shame to waste an opportunity to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/31 "2010-01-27T00:56:23Z")
The best result of Bilbo’s adventures was the destruction of the Goblin army in the Northern Kingdom, enabling Aragorn and his Rangers to travel South and reclaim the Southern Kingdom in Lord of the Rings. Smaug is supposed to be a badass, but all it took to bring him down was one guy with a lucky arrow. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/32 "2010-01-27T01:39:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Fewmets. The word for dragon poop is fewmets. Does it have an magical qualities as do the droppings of unicorns? ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/33 "2010-01-27T05:03:19Z")
I’m sure it all would have worked out one way or another. Remember Gandalf had a foretelling. Eru/Illuvitar/God tapped him on the shoulder and said, “Send forth the Dwarves and make sure that little Bilbo goes with them.” To which Gandalf replied, “Yes sir.” Pretty much they were all on a Mission From God. And once God is on your side the long term drama goes out the window. Regardless of whatever else happens, events were going to unfold in such a way that through unlikely coincidences Bilbo sets off a chain reaction that results in a dead Smaug. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/34 "2010-01-27T06:02:20Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > What does Gandalf do? Wait twenty years and try to persuade Aragorn to take a crack at it? See if the good things he’s heard about that Bard fellow have any basis in fact? Take a crack at manipulating Dain? Why would he do anything? When “the Necromancer” turns out to be Sauron, Gandalf has much, much bigger concerns than who holds the hoard of Thror. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Piranha_Brothers)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/35 "2010-01-27T08:47:52Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > It was best expressed in _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_ as “Run away! Run away!” In that case, no need to worry about old Smaug. For although he has nasty big pointy teeth, that frightens us not because we have… **THE HOLY HANDGRENADE!** ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/36 "2010-01-27T14:41:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Fewmets. The word for dragon poop is fewmets. It’s such a great word that comes up so seldom, it’s a shame to waste an opportunity to use it. That’s going to be my new word for the week. Got a reliable cite for it? > [@Bartman](#): > > I’m sure it all would have worked out one way or another. Remember Gandalf had a foretelling. Eru/Illuvitar/God tapped him on the shoulder and said, “Send forth the Dwarves and make sure that little Bilbo goes with them.” To which Gandalf replied, “Yes sir.” > > Pretty much they were all on a Mission From God. Finally the song-and-dance production number makes sense! Bilbo’s Journey is an allegory for _The Blues Brothers_! ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/37 "2010-01-27T17:07:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Fewmets. The word for dragon poop is fewmets. It’s such a great word that comes up so seldom, it’s a shame to waste an opportunity to use it. > [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > That’s going to be my new word for the week. Got a reliable cite for it? He won’t, because he’s not correct, precisely. “Fewmets” are the droppings of a species that is being hunted. So dragon poop is only properly called fewmets by someone hunting the dragon. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/38 "2010-01-27T18:00:42Z")
Wiki on fewmets - see the last paragraph: [Feces - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fewmet) Tolkien’s “The Quest of Erebor,” found in both _Unfinished Tales_ and _The Annotated Hobbit_, has some great insights into Gandalf’s thinking. Had Smaug survived the expedition of Thorin & Co., I’m sure the wizard would’ve gone to Plan B - whether Bard, Dain or Aragorn in due time, I don’t know, but he’d have tried _something_. Smaug was too big and evil a chess piece to leave on the board in the runup to the decisive conflict he foresaw. As it was, King Dain of Erebor and King Brand of Dale were both killed fighting orcs before the gates of the Lonely Mountain during the War of the Ring, so the good guys were clearly hard-pressed. Add a dragon to the mix, and it’s very bad news indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/39 "2010-01-27T18:20:23Z")
Dragons vs. Ents! Or can you imagine the amount of pants-shitting (or fewmenting, if you will ;)) in Gondor when Smaug the Golden comes swooping out of the sky? Sorry, I’ve just got a soft spot in my upper chest for the big guy. He was my first super-villain, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432/40 "2010-01-27T18:23:27Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > That’s going to be my new word for the week. Got a reliable cite for it? I read in Madeleine L’Engle’s [_A Wind in the Door_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Wind_in_the_Door) that “fewmets” are “dragon droppings,” but that’s the only such usage of the word I’ve ever seen. I thought “fewmets” was a hunter’s term for **deer** droppings. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fewmets) says it’s a medieval generic term for the droppings of an any game animal being stalked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-survives-bilbos-quest-what-does-gandalf-do-about-it/526432.md?page=3)