# Smaug vs the Nazgul **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 16, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929 "2014-01-16T02:38:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/21 "2014-01-16T17:06:51Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > So…the proper tactic for the Nazgul would be to pull him to Mordor, where they could zerg him? “He’s readying his breath! Get to the sides. No Bilbo God…damnit!! If you get behind him he’ll tail-swipe you!!..hhhhhhh…we lost Bilbo.” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/22 "2014-01-16T17:22:03Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > “He’s readying his breath! Get to the sides. No Bilbo God…damnit!! If you get behind him he’ll tail-swipe you!!..hhhhhhh…we lost Bilbo.” “Billllllbooooooo Jenkinnnns!!!” ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/23 "2014-01-16T17:51:36Z")
How long do dragons live in the Tolkien world? They are not immortal, but I’ve never heard of one dying of old age. Even if it was one Nazgul against Smaug, being an immortal undead would surely give the Nazgul the advantage. It might take a thousand pokes of his sword over the course of a thousand years, but I’d have to go with the Nazgul ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/24 "2014-01-16T18:08:15Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > So…the proper tactic for the Nazgul would be to pull him to Mordor, where they could zerg him? But on the other hand, that allows Smaug to spawn-camp the Nazgul, right? ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/25 "2014-01-16T18:16:22Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > But on the other hand, that allows Smaug to spawn-camp the Nazgul, right? Not if the spawn point is secure. It’s probably inside the Tower. If necessary, they could keep one Nazgul off-tank on standby near the Mountain to go in and mess with the hoard to taunt him away briefly. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/26 "2014-01-16T18:25:25Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > How long do dragons live in the Tolkien world? They are not immortal, but I’ve never heard of one dying of old age. Thorin thinks they are immortal: “Dragons… guard their plunder as long as they live (which is practically for ever, unless they are killed) and never enjoy a brass ring of it”. _The Hobbit_, chapter 1. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/27 "2014-01-16T18:41:52Z")
I’m going to go with Smaug, here. The great power of the Nazgul is fear, but against anyone or anything that can stand up to that fear, they’re nearly powerless. Even someone like Farmer Maggot can best a Nazgul-- He can’t _destroy_ it, of course, but he can render it moot. Smaug, though, can give you damn good _reason_ to fear, and dragonfire will roast you crispy even if you don’t fear it. Plus, although Gandalf says that there’s no dragon left with fire hot enough to melt a Ring of Power, he notably said that after Smaug was already dead. It’s quite likely that Smaug could have melted the Nine. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/28 "2014-01-16T18:51:06Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Not if the spawn point is secure. It’s probably inside the Tower. If necessary, they could keep one Nazgul off-tank on standby near the Mountain to go in and mess with the hoard to taunt him away briefly. If there’s one thing I learned from the Hobbit movies, it’s that all ancient formidable stone architecture is actually made from Styrofoam. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/29 "2014-01-16T18:58:57Z")
The idea of the Nazgul and Smaug fighting in Mordor is hilarious. Sauron: 'What the HELL is going on out there???!!" ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/30 "2014-01-16T19:01:19Z")
I’m going to put my money on Smaug. He doesn’t have to wait for orders or travel in secret. He is ancient and steeped in cunning, and would be a lot more cautious facing down Nazgul than he is flying over a highly flammable town peopled with puny humans while pissed off. Over-confidence helped bring him down, not something he would be likely to be guilty of when facing the 9. Also, are we talking of the 9 at their fullest power, or the 9 and Smaug at the time of the Hobbit? Nazgul seem to get stronger when close to Sauron, especially once he openly declares himself and starts setting up Barad-Dur again. They might be pretty negligible in the Dol Guldur days. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/31 "2014-01-16T19:31:17Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Assuming we’re talking Movie Smaug, spoilered for those who may not have seen it: > > Nazgul, for sure. Smaug fights ten dwarves and a hobbit in an enclosed space for like twenty minutes without inflicting so much as a paper cut or sunburn. He’s clearly a pacifist. In fact, in book and movie, does Smaug actually injure _anyone_ in all his macguffining? Well, the same is true for the movie Nazgul. . . they didn’t do anything in the movies. And Strider basically kicks their ass, not like in the book where they barely escape. So maybe they wouldn’t fight at all. Maybe it would be a Nazgul / Smaug lovefest! ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/32 "2014-01-16T19:47:13Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > The idea of the Nazgul and Smaug fighting in Mordor is hilarious. > > Sauron: 'What the HELL is going on out there???!!" I’m picturing a lawnchair and popcorn on top of Barad-dûr. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/33 "2014-01-16T20:13:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Plus, although Gandalf says that there’s no dragon left with fire hot enough to melt a Ring of Power, he notably said that after Smaug was already dead. It’s quite likely that Smaug could have melted the Nine. I don’t think the Nine were _wearing_ their rings by this point. Sauron had them. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/34 "2014-01-16T20:39:45Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Nazgul is done. > Smaug is taking Nazgul shits for a week. Have you ever had Nazgul shits? It makes Mexican heartburn feel like a week of Metamusal. I wouldn’t call that winning. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/35 "2014-01-16T20:45:51Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I don’t think the Nine were _wearing_ their rings by this point. Sauron had them. Yeah, that point is endlessly debated. I think the overall voting is toward Sauron having them, but not at this point in time as Sauron had no physical form yet. wiki \*“It is not clear whether the Nazgûl continued to wear their rings. Tolkien says both “the Nine the Nazgûl keep”[6] and that Sauron had gathered the Nine to himself,[2] though in the latter case his meaning may be metaphorical. When the Nazgûl are destroyed, no mention is made of their rings.” \* also > **[Rings of Power](https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Rings_of_Power)** > > The Rings of Power were twenty magical rings forged in the Second Age, seventeen of which were intended by Sauron to seduce the rulers of Middle-earth to evil. Disguised as the benevolent entity Annatar, Sauron taught the Elf-smiths of Eregion, led... \*It is unclear where the Nine were physically kept. At the Council of Elrond the history of the Rings of Power is discussed, and it is stated that Sauron has “gathered the Nine to himself,” although it is also said that “the Nine the Nazgûl keep.” This could mean either that the Nazgûl wear their rings while in the service of Sauron, or it could mean that after they fell and became enslaved to his will Sauron took their rings and kept them in Barad-dûr as he did with the remaining Dwarf rings and set the Nazgûl to guard them. There is no mention of any of the Nine when the Nazgûl are seen, and most notably when the Witch-King was slain Tolkien does not describe him wearing a ring, nor did either Gandalf or Aragorn express concern about what happened to the ring afterwards. This implies that at the very least the Nazgûl don’t wear their rings constantly, although they may sometimes put them on still… \* ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/36 "2014-01-18T18:51:35Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > The idea of the Nazgul and Smaug fighting in Mordor is hilarious. > > Sauron: 'What the HELL is going on out there???!!" That gave me a good laugh, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/37 "2014-01-18T19:04:23Z")
The OP asked who is the greater threat? I assume that means “to the good guys” rather than “to each other.” The answer might not be the same for each question. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/38 "2014-01-18T20:54:54Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > That gave me a good laugh, thanks. I personally laughed when I started imagining Sauron leaning out the window and yelling, “Hey you kids! Get offa my lawn!” ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/39 "2014-01-18T21:09:21Z")
> [@tullsterx](#): > > So maybe they wouldn’t fight at all. Maybe it would be a Nazgul / Smaug lovefest! Wow, someone **does** read my fanfiction! ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/40 "2014-01-18T21:17:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m going to go with Smaug, here. The great power of the Nazgul is fear, but against anyone or anything that can stand up to that fear, they’re nearly powerless. Even someone like Farmer Maggot can best a Nazgul-- He can’t _destroy_ it, of course, but he can render it moot. Smaug, though, can give you damn good _reason_ to fear, and dragonfire will roast you crispy even if you don’t fear it. > > Plus, although Gandalf says that there’s no dragon left with fire hot enough to melt a Ring of Power, he notably said that after Smaug was already dead. It’s quite likely that Smaug could have melted the Nine. There’s also the point that several of the Dwarven Rings were destroyed when their wearers were eaten by dragons… I think that kinda voids the warranty, if the Nazgul are still wearing their rings. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929.md?page=3)