# Smaug vs the Nazgul **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 16, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929 "2014-01-16T02:38:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/41 "2014-01-18T22:57:04Z")
Harking back to when Gandalf and Aragorn each faced down Nazgul on Weathertop a few days apart - and when Aragorn and Glorfindel attacked them to cover Frodo’s escape at the ford - the weapon that was most useful against them was fire. Which, as it happens… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/42 "2014-01-19T04:59:06Z")
it’s also interesting one huge difference between the Seven and the Nine. From everything I read, the Nine are the Original one & only owners/wearers. Whilst the Seven were passed down from Dwarf King to his successors. And Sauron offered the Dwarves three of the Seven back, but didn’t try to use any of the Nine to tempt any more Men into becoming a Ringwraith. So, it would seem that the magic of the Nine was sorta of a one shot, or at best could only be used on one Man. Whether or not the Nazgul wore them or Sauron held them, doesn’t make any difference, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/43 "2014-01-19T05:05:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, it would seem that the magic of the Nine was sorta of a one shot, or at best could only be used on one Man. Whether or not the Nazgul wore them or Sauron held them, doesn’t make any difference, it seems. Probably at a time. Sauron likely would have made one to replace The Witch-King had he the opportunity. Edit: On the subject here, the big issue Is that the Witch-King’s most powerful weapons aren’t going to mean much against Smaug, whereas Smaug’s strengths are exactly what screws over WK. Even without killing the Witch-King, he could trap him or something and there’d be squat the Witch-King can do. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/44 "2014-01-19T14:24:25Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > There’s also the point that several of the Dwarven Rings were destroyed when their wearers were eaten by dragons… I think that kinda voids the warranty, if the Nazgul are still wearing their rings. None of the nine were wearing the Rings at this point. Sauron had them safely somewhere. The nine were of the spirit world only by this point having lost their actual corporal bodies long ago. Why the Rings could not be redeployed to make more Ring Wraiths is something not even hinted at in the books or the histories. But as we know a [del]wizard[/del] [del]necromancer[/del] fallen angel did it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/45 "2014-01-19T14:43:34Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > In Avengers/JLA…Busiek makes both of them such badasses, that both of them… by only making a few feints and moves… are able to determine that Bats would win, but it would take a long, long time. You have that exactly backwards. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/46 "2014-01-19T15:13:33Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > The OP asked who is the greater threat? I assume that means “to the good guys” rather than “to each other.” The answer might not be the same for each question. do what you will with the question. either way, the posts have been interesting so far. how about the Eagles? were they free or inclined to get involved, how would they fare against either of them? > [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > “He’s readying his breath! Get to the sides. No Bilbo God…damnit!! If you get behind him he’ll tail-swipe you!!..hhhhhhh…we lost Bilbo.” that is 50 DKP MINUS! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/47 "2014-01-19T15:47:17Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > None of the nine were wearing the Rings at this point. Sauron had them safely somewhere. The nine were of the spirit world only by this point having lost their actual corporal bodies long ago. Why the Rings could not be redeployed to make more Ring Wraiths is something not even hinted at in the books or the histories. But as we know a [del]wizard[/del] [del]necromancer[/del] fallen angel did it. On a reasonable guess, the Rings could only bind one wearer at a time. Then you can take your pick of the following: - If Sauron used a Ring to bind someone else, the previously trapped soul would be lost (so he loses one already bound Nazgul to make a new one) - Sauron can’t make a new Nazgul until the previous incumbent is destroyed (so he must lose one already bound Nazgul before he can start making a new one) ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/48 "2014-01-19T16:08:27Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > You have that exactly backwards. Really? Ahh…well, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/49 "2014-01-19T16:57:44Z")
I agree with Chronus that dragons in general are immune the the Nazguls’ greatest weapon, the despair they engender in the hearts of their foes. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/50 "2014-01-19T18:22:05Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > On a reasonable guess, the Rings could only bind one wearer at a time. Then you can take your pick of the following: > > - If Sauron used a Ring to bind someone else, the previously trapped soul would be lost (so he loses one already bound Nazgul to make a new one) > - Sauron can’t make a new Nazgul until the previous incumbent is destroyed (so he must lose one already bound Nazgul before he can start making a new one) I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/51 "2014-01-19T20:01:02Z")
> [@](#): > > The great power of the Nazgul is fear, Fear and Surprise And a ruthless efficiency And an almost fanatical devotion to Sauron And nice black uniforms. Sure they can get new bodies from Sauron every time Smaug sizzle fries them, but it would be hilarious to see them explaining to The Eye what happened to their old ones. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/52 "2014-01-19T20:33:23Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > Sure they can get new bodies from Sauron every time Smaug sizzle fries them, but it would be hilarious to see them explaining to The Eye what happened to their old ones. I am reminded of the \*Aqua Teen Hunger Force \*episode where the ectoplasmic ghost dissolves every time someone uses their cell phone… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/53 "2014-01-19T20:53:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_Q](#): > > Fear and Surprise > And a ruthless efficiency > And an almost fanatical devotion to Sauron > And nice black uniforms. > > Sure they can get new bodies from Sauron every time Smaug sizzle fries them, but it would be hilarious to see them explaining to The Eye what happened to their old ones. “And you were fighting a dragon why, exactly? He’s _on our side…_” ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/54 "2014-01-19T20:53:22Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > I am reminded of the \*Aqua Teen Hunger Force \*episode where the ectoplasmic ghost dissolves every time someone uses their cell phone… yeah - but testing that theory in a movie theatre will get you shot - grumpy old retired cops don’t appreciate no ghost bustin. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/55 "2014-01-19T21:30:51Z")
Godzilla vs Dracula. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/56 "2014-01-20T00:45:32Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Godzilla vs Dracula. One word - immolation - think furnace, without wings. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/57 "2014-01-20T01:40:25Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I personally laughed when I started imagining Sauron leaning out the window and yelling, “Hey you kids! Get offa my lawn!” Since he doesn’t have a body yet, I picture him more like a passive-aggressive twerp : “Excuuuuse me, \*some \*people are re-materializing in the morning and that damn racket isn’t helping, the tower has very thin walls and I CAN HEAR EVERYTHING, thanks very much assholes ;)”. Possibly as a note written in lava on the side of Mount Doom, or left in the Nazgûl’s fridge. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/58 "2014-01-20T02:59:27Z")
Could Sauron have bound a dragon like Smaug to him using one of the Rings of Power? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2014, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929/59 "2014-01-20T03:03:28Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Could Sauron have bound a dragon like Smaug to him using one of the Rings of Power? One interpretation is that Gandalf believed that\*, and used some dwarves to kill Smaug. Also why Glinda the Good Witch befriends some Kansan, because she wants to whack her rivals. \*Supposedly mentioned in the posthumous _The Quest of Erebor_, but I haven’t read it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smaug-vs-the-nazgul/678929.md?page=2)