# Smearing the US Intel Community **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 1, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484 "2005-12-01T00:49:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/1 "2005-12-01T00:49:46Z")
I’ve been waiting for the other shoe to drop. It’s more of the utterly and beautifully absurd pop-con culture of victimhood. Team Bush star in their very own martyrdom play. The folks who left the Admin w/ unflattering things to say, they were horrid partisans who the innocent and naive Admin hired on. How was teh Admin to know that so many folks working for them were actually lying partisan hacks? Now, the nation’s intel agencies and the Dept of State are in league w/ the Vast Liberal ConspiracyTM, the mind-control weilding MSM and the liberally biased reality itself. It all makes sense now. That’s where the MSM got their mind-control devices - the CIA. It’s all here: [http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/417aldhj.asp?pg=1](http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/417aldhj.asp?pg=1) This is why it looks so bad for the Admin. It’s not that they screwed up or anything, it’s just that the US Intel Community has turned against them and is plotting their downfall. Now every pop-con with a granny sandwich can go about their business and ignore the findings of one the world’s finest intel services simply by hiding in the belief that the CIA’s out to get poor, poor innocent Georgie. I say, “Good luck,” to all the poor schmucks who hold the Admin as immaculate. Soon you won’t be able to back-track on you support for quickly enough. [Yes, yes. Of course. I know you wouldn’t ever do that. You’ll be a true-blue red because it’s the right thing to do no matter what the facts are.] ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/2 "2005-12-01T01:02:32Z")
Yeah, it’s the usual Repub partisan bullshit. Bush and his cronies never did anything wrong. It’s the evil CIA and their running dog lackies, the Democrats. What utter horse shit that article is. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/3 "2005-12-01T01:37:00Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Now every pop-con with a granny sandwich can go about their business and ignore the findings of **one the world’s finest intel services** simply by hiding in the belief that the CIA’s out to get poor, poor innocent Georgie. > [@](#): > > A few years ago, the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, D-N.Y., suggested that we dismantle the agency that has so often produced catastrophically wrong national intelligence estimates. He was outraged by CIA calculations throughout the Reagan and elder Bush years that overstated the size of the Soviet economy by 50 percent and led our government into a weapons-spending spree that left us the world’s largest debtor nation. According to President George W. Bush and his chief weapons inspector, David Kay, the agency has done it again, misleading the nation about the alleged menace posed by the ousted president of Iraq, Saddam Hussein. > > Our intelligence apparatus has been flawed from the day it was created. Allegedly intended to prevent a surprise attack on our country comparable to the Dec. 7, 1941, Japanese assault on Pearl Harbor, the agency was supposed to be a central clearinghouse for intelligence collected by many different bodies throughout the government – including the military services, the signals intercepts of the National Security Agency, counterespionage by the FBI, as well as its own efforts to recruit and run foreign agents. > > But in fact, intelligence collecting and analysis would quickly become camouflage for a private secret army at the personal command of the president devoted to dirty tricks, covert overthrows of foreign governments and planting disinformation – as well as efforts to counter similar operations by the Soviet Union. > … > > Since the overthrow of the Iranian government in 1953, the CIA has engaged in similar disguised assaults on the governments of Guatemala (1954); the Congo (1960); Cuba (1961); Brazil (1964); Indonesia (1965); Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia (1961-73); Greece (1967); Chile (1973); Afghanistan (1979 to the present); El Salvador, Guatemala and Nicaragua (1980s); and Iraq (1991 to the present) – to name only the most obvious cases. These operations have generated numerous terrorist attacks and other forms of retaliation – what the CIA calls “blowback” – against the United States by peoples on the receiving end. Because covert operations are secret from the people of the United States (if not their targets), when retaliation hits, as it did so spectacularly on Sept. 11, 2001, Americans do not have the information to put it into context or understand it. I’m with St. Pat on this one, numerous disagreements notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/4 "2005-12-01T01:42:40Z")
So that’s what shrill sounds like. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/5 "2005-12-01T01:45:15Z")
[Much more subversive anti-CIA material here.](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/02/22/EDG8J4F15M1.DTL) ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/6 "2005-12-01T01:45:38Z")
What a bizarre article. I’m particularly bemused by the author’s apparent contention that anyone who happens to object to a policy of the kidnapping and secret imprisonment of foreign nationals for for indefinite periods is “anti-American”. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/7 "2005-12-01T01:46:47Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > So that’s what shrill sounds like. Impulsive, aren’t we, Nurse-y? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/8 "2005-12-01T01:51:50Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > So that’s what shrill sounds like. Yeah. And after the USSR fell, suddenly Reagan became a genius for “engineering” their fall by his “brilliant plan” to force them into an arms race they could not afford to maintain. Meanwhile the Reagan true believers were singing Happy Days Are Here Again. The Iran Contra “thing” was all Reagan too. He gave the orders, the CIA followed the orders. I wonder how much of the “bad info” from intelligence was just like now - the ruling party sets up a culture in which they only hear what they want to hear, and only bringers of good news get the promotions. The party in power decides what they want to do, listen only to the “happy data” while ignoring any warning signs and then blame someone else. Vietnam/Laos/Camobida, can be put on the politicians who thought they were generals and thought they knew how to run a war. Put the blame where it belongs - on those who make the decisisions, secret or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/9 "2005-12-01T01:54:06Z")
Better watch your back, **NurseCarmen** , or you might just get two weeks of taunts like: Nurse-y Carmen, Filthy and Harmin’ Scuzzy Nurse-y, what could be worse-y? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/10 "2005-12-01T03:35:02Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > I’m with St. Pat on this one, numerous disagreements notwithstanding. OMFG! The CIA is flawed! I guess that means they couldn’t be “one the world’s finest intel services” unless other intel agencies are also flawed. And since no other intel agency is flawed, I guess I was wrong. An interesting side-note re faulty assessment of the USSR threat is that there was a Team B set by some of the same crew who advocated the set up of the OSP et al. And, just like the OSP, Team B got things even more wrong than the CIA. Team B presented the threat from the USSR as being even greater than the CIA. Additionally, none of what was in the articles you posted assigns partisan motives to the CIA. Mr. Hinderaker asks us to believe that whoever it was who spilled the beans about the detention centers and the rendition was merely “out to get Bush” rather than concerned about the unethical and illegal actions of the agency. The entirety of the case presented for that interpretation requires that we accept the conclusion as one of the premises. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/11 "2005-12-01T03:48:53Z")
Hey, at least **Isky** isn’t pretending not to know English this time. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/12 "2005-12-01T04:50:13Z")
Oh yeah, forgot to ask: > [@PatriotX](#): > > Now every pop-con with a granny sandwich can go about their business… Sounds interesting, but I haven’t a clue what it means. Would someone be kind enough to translate this into Englitch? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/13 "2005-12-01T05:34:19Z")
> [@](#): > > **PatriotX** : Additionally, none of what was in the articles you posted assigns partisan motives to the CIA. From the link in the OP: > [@](#): > > The CIA has used its budget to fund criticism of the administration by former Democratic officeholders. Close enough. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/14 "2005-12-01T12:34:51Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > From the link in the OP: > Close enough. Exactly. Except I provided that link, not **Isk** ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/15 "2005-12-01T12:36:26Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Oh yeah, forgot to ask: > Sounds interesting, but I haven’t a clue what it means. Would someone be kind enough to translate this into Englitch? Hell if I know. It just came out. Googling reveals quite a diversity of opinions as what exactly one is. Apparently, one version is a pickle and peanutbutter sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/16 "2005-12-01T14:31:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Hell if I know. It just came out. Googling reveals quite a diversity of opinions as what exactly one is. Apparently, one version is a pickle and peanutbutter sandwich. Yeah, and another apparently involves three-way pr0n with someone’s grandmother. Hence my question. And pop-con? Please forgive me, but I’m a cartoon horse from the '60s and am not up to date on the latest jargon. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/17 "2005-12-01T15:45:59Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Impulsive, aren’t we, Nurse-y? Neato! I just found a New Iskander button, and I pushed it! ---
**Author:** ![JerH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@JerH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerH)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/18 "2005-12-01T16:31:56Z")
Most of the folks I know in the intel community _do_ hate the Administration - but that’s mostly from their chronic dismissal of any intelligence that doesn’t support their preconcieved viewpoints, rather than any partisan differences. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/19 "2005-12-01T20:13:14Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > And pop-con? Please forgive me, but I’m a cartoon horse from the '60s and am not up to date on the latest jargon. pop-con is to conservative as pop-music is to music ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484/20 "2005-12-01T20:16:55Z")
> [@JerH](#): > > Most of the folks I know in the intel community _do_ hate the Administration - but that’s mostly from their chronic dismissal of any intelligence that doesn’t support their preconcieved viewpoints, rather than any partisan differences. Well if they weren’t so blinded by their hatred of all things Bush they would see that the intel supports Team Bush’s preconcieved viewpoints. :smack: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smearing-the-us-intel-community/333484.md?page=2)