# Smog Check in California **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 25, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075 "2004-09-25T21:04:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/21 "2004-09-26T15:52:12Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > **dances** … the cost of vehicle inspection in PA jumped from c. $15.00 to c. $65.00. You have to pay to get your vehicle tested? What, right then and there? If so, can’t your state include that into your registration sticker fee? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/22 "2004-09-26T15:53:40Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > You have to pay to get your vehicle tested? What, right then and there? > > If so, can’t your state include that into your registration sticker fee? Yup. We have to pay right then and there. And the state doesn’t perform the inspections. Licensed service centers (which can include local garages and chains like Pep Boys) do. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/23 "2004-09-26T16:14:01Z")
> [@Muad'Dib](#): > > $64.95?!? I got mine done for $25.00. Dude, check the _Penny Saver_ for ads with coupons. Most places will even match a competitors coupon. Wasn’t an option for me. The DMV registration renewal notice said that I had to take my car to a **Test-Only Station** , either because it was one of the cars randomly selected for this program or because it’s more 10 years old. (It’s a 1993 Saturn SW-2 wagon. I like this little car, because it consistently gets over 30 miles per gallon – all the cars Saturn has put out since the turn of the millennium are gas guzzlers by comparison.) ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/24 "2004-09-26T16:27:13Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > So you have never read the most expensive book you have ever purchased?\* > Try reading your owner’s manual. > A check engine light on = smog check failure since check engine lights came out in the 1980’s. Okay, smarty-pants, here is the **entire** text in my 1993 Saturn owner’s manual for the check-engine light: "_**Malfunction Indicator (Service Engine Soon) Warning Light**_ This light is part of your computer system. It always comes on as a test when you start your vehicle. If it doesn’t, you should have it fixed, or it won’t be there to warn you of a problem. If this light comes on and stays on, a problem has been detected in your engine or automatic transaxle. You should drive the vehicle in for service. It doesn’t mean your vehicle needs towing. If this light comes on and then goes off, your vehicle’s computer system has detected a problem which is intermittent. You should drive the vehicle in for service. NOTICE: If you keep driving your Saturn with the ‘MALFUNCTION INDICATOR’ light on, eventually your emission controls won’t work well, your fuel economy won’t be as good as it could be, and your engine or automatic transaxle may not run smoothly. Ignoring this can lead to costly repairs not covered by your warranty." You will notice there is no place in this text, nowhere at all, where it says “If this light is on, you will automatically fail a smog check.” The most strongly worded caution that has anything to do with a smog check is “eventually your emission controls won’t work well,” which is not saying the same thing at all. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/25 "2004-09-26T16:41:04Z")
> [@legion](#): > > Did you know that it is entirely possible that your planet could fail its “smog test” and thus accelerate its “reboot” procedure if enough of you ignore/gripe about/don’t give a fuck about your “check engine” light thingy? > > Just sayin’ is all. Smog checks have nothing to do with “saving the planet.” They don’t make one whit of difference to the global environment, or the long-term environment. They’re about reducing **short-duration** air pollution **locally** in the cities where the cars are being driven, period. A car that gets X number of miles per gallon is going to put a given amount of of greenhouse gases into the air, regardless of whether its engine provides 100% complete combustion or whether it’s a “gross polluter.” The only way you’ll reduce greenhouse emissions is by reducing the number of gallons of gasoline you burn, either by driving less, driving in a more efficient manner (e.g. not idling at the drive-thru ATM, not playing drag-racer when the light turns green, etc.) or by getting a more fuel-efficient car. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/26 "2004-09-26T17:29:06Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > You have to pay to get your vehicle tested? What, right then and there? > > If so, can’t your state include that into your registration sticker fee? Your suggestion is practical only if the state itself was conducting the inspection process. IIRC, that is how things are done in NJ. In PA, independent Mom & Pop garages, and chain outfits such as Firestone, Goodyear, and Pep Boys all perform inspections. Besides that, PENNDOT is a black hole of money. If they were collecting it, the garages would never see a dime. If I was writing car manuals, I’d include a comment that having the light on may cause you to fail emissions inspections in your particular state, but they didn’t ask my opinion. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/27 "2004-09-27T19:29:51Z")
You’d think anyone who received intermittent SES/CEL lights in their vehicles would have enough brains to realize that something wasn’t quite right with their vehicle’s smog system and would try and figure outt he problem before they threw their money at a shop for a smogging. Y’know, lots of parts stores and shops will plug in a code reader and capture the codes your car is kicking out for free or dirt cheap. Then you can figure out the problem before you waste $65… Sam ---
**Author:** ![Cowgirl\_Jules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@Cowgirl\_Jules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cowgirl_Jules)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/28 "2004-09-27T19:52:37Z")
Yes, I did know that the check engine light made for an automatic smog check failure. And I’d been driving around with one on for well over a year. Shh, people, it was for a tranny sensor that I put $1500 into NOT fixing, and I’d made an executive decision to keep driving on until my truck had an actual symptom to fix. But I also knew that my registration was coming up in October, and I’d better get it taken care of because this was bound to be a smog check year for me. $2700 later, I have a rebuilt transmission and the light is finally off. The day _after_ I got my truck back, I got my registration notice in the mail. And there was no smog check requirement. :smack: And thus was my very expensive lesson that the smog checks weren’t required until the vehicle was five years old, not four. ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/29 "2004-09-27T22:38:38Z")
Also, smog problems are not the only reasons that a CEL can be triggered. So don’t go painting everyone who has CEL issues as some gross polluter. I have a 1988 Toyota Celica with the CEL on. I pull a 52, which is a knock sensor error code. With this code on, the engine runs no differently, except that the ECU will not pull timing when it senses knock. No biggie. The problem is actually that knock sensor wiring fails regularly on this car, and, despite the custom adapters, 1988 Camaro knock sensor and a lot of tricks with Ethernet cabling, it still comes on from time to time. Explain to me how exactly this means I’m destroying the planet? In my shop manual, I also find the low intercooler water level will trigger a CEL, as will A/C switch failure, intercooler water pump, and some other things. Colorado has realized that there is not always connection between CELs and smog, which is why the changed their rules last year to no longer require a function CEL to pass smog tests. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/30 "2004-09-27T22:41:29Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > You’d think anyone who received intermittent SES/CEL lights in their vehicles would have enough brains to realize that something wasn’t quite right with their vehicle’s smog system and would try and figure outt he problem before they threw their money at a shop for a smogging. > > Y’know, lots of parts stores and shops will plug in a code reader and capture the codes your car is kicking out for free or dirt cheap. Then you can figure out the problem before you waste $65… The problem **is** with part of my emission control system. (The EGR solenoid is bad.) Fixing this problem will run me about $450, because they have to replace a second solenoid along with it. (And I should mention that the auto shop didn’t know how to spell “solenoid” correctly.) But, darn it, **my emissions were all completely within State specified limits!** The only reason I failed that smog check was because of the panel light. If the light hadn’t gone off during the test, **I would have passed the smog check**. What if it had been a bad transmission, or an intermittent problem in my alternator, that had caused the Check Engine light to come on? Why the flying fuckburgers should that cause me to fail a freakin’ _smog check!?_ ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/31 "2004-09-27T22:44:56Z")
> [@Necros](#): > > Also, smog problems are not the only reasons that a CEL can be triggered. So don’t go painting everyone who has CEL issues as some gross polluter. What’s really funny here in California is that our illustrious Bureau of Automotive Repair will provide financial assistance, up to $500 worth, for emissions-related repairs if your car fails a smog check and you’re below a certain income level. But this financial assistance only covers _emissions-related_ repairs! If your CEL comes on because your air conditioner switch isn’t working properly, you’re up the fabled shit creek! ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/32 "2004-09-27T22:52:32Z")
Here in Minnesota, they recently ended the vehicle emissions tests, because _so very few_ vehicles failed them that it wasn’t worthwhile to continue doing them. Of course, the fact that cars more than 10 years old were not required to take emissions test might have had something to do with that. What legslative fool exempts the ‘junkers’ on the road from emissions tests? Most of the real stinky polluters I’ve seen have been beat-up junker cars! ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/33 "2004-09-28T20:28:27Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I wish the states would just be honest. HAND OVER THE FUCKING MONEY…NOW!!! > > Emissions on recent cars are NOT a major source of air pollution. They are a sweet source of revenue, however. This is the sort of thing that slowly turns people into bitter Libertarians. ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2004, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/34 "2004-09-28T23:27:03Z")
> [@Necros](#): > > Also, smog problems are not the only reasons that a CEL can be triggered. So don’t go painting everyone who has CEL issues as some gross polluter. I haven’t painted anyone as a “gross polluter”(lovely little term from CARB). Whether it’s a knock sensor, or a tranny, or another part of your vehicle that is failing(which, BTW are all things that could possibly lead to higher emissions-not that I care), ignoring it and expecting to get your tags is ridiculous. The CEL/SES is a show-stopper. At least have the foresight to disconnect your battery for 10 minutes to clear the codes before you take it to a shop for a smog. Tracer- If it’s just your EGR solenoid, replace it! On my Chevy it would have taken 20 minutes and $120 in parts(if that). Hell, go buy a scrapyard EGR solenoid for $5, buy 3 and install them if one fails. It’s a lot cheaper than $450 and $65 for a smog test. A couple vacuum hoses and a couple plugs. You’re right, I guess it’s a little silly that you don’t pass even while being within limits, but there are other cars out there that would fail when the EGR system took a shit. We can’t write laws that exclude Tracer, just because he passed smog-wise with a dead EGR. In that case, we might as well scrap all of our laws and become Mexico City. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/35 "2004-09-30T04:12:06Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > If this light comes on and stays on, a problem has been detected in your engine or automatic transaxle. You should drive the vehicle in for service. It doesn’t mean your vehicle needs towing. > :::Snip::: > NOTICE: If you keep driving your Saturn with the ‘MALFUNCTION INDICATOR’ light on, eventually your emission controls won’t work well, your fuel economy won’t be as good as it could be, and your engine or automatic transaxle may not run smoothly. Ignoring this can lead to costly repairs not covered by your warranty." > > You will notice there is no place in this text, nowhere at all, where it says “If this light is on, you will automatically fail a smog check.” The most strongly worded caution that has anything to do with a smog check is “eventually your emission controls won’t work well,” which is not saying the same thing at all. > 😛 First off Saturns are sold in 50 states all with slightly different smog laws. It is not reasonable to expect Saturn to sell out the laws for each and every location where the car is sold. Furthermore what part of > [@](#): > > If this light comes on and stays on, a problem has been detected in your engine or automatic transaxle. You should drive the vehicle in for service. would lead you to believe that everything is hunky dory in the engine room of your car?" Where I come from “a problem” means that that you have a umm problem. Problems need to be fixed. > [@](#): > > Smog checks have nothing to do with “saving the planet.” They don’t make one whit of difference to the global environment, or the long-term environment. They’re about reducing short-duration air pollution locally in the cities where the cars are being driven, period. Spoken like somebody that hasn’t lived in California for a while. Back in the 60’s before smog controls smog was much worse. Smog controls have helped [Cite](http://www.aqmd.gov/smog/o3hist-trend.pdf) > [@](#): > > A car that gets X number of miles per gallon is going to put a given amount of of greenhouse gases into the air, regardless of whether its engine provides 100% complete combustion or whether it’s a “gross polluter.” Not true grasshopper. If your car is running cleanly it is producing very little of the items that produce photo chemical smog i.e. unburned hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, and oxides of nitrogen. None of these are generally considered greenhouse gases. CO2 (greenhouse gas) is at it’s max. If however your car is running poorly (rich or excessively lean) the production of hydrocarbons, and/or CO go way up, which cause the greenhouse portion of the exhaust (CO2) to go way down. If the carbon in the fuel is not burned (HC) it can’t become CO2. If the Carbon in the fuel only burns part way (CO) it isn’t CO2. > [@](#): > > What if it had been a bad transmission, or an intermittent problem in my alternator, that had caused the Check Engine light to come on? Why the flying fuckburgers should that cause me to fail a freakin’ smog check!? and > [@](#): > > But this financial assistance only covers emissions-related repairs! If your CEL comes on because your air conditioner switch isn’t working properly, you’re up the fabled shit creek! You are making the assumption that ALL engine trouble codes light the MIL. I am not an expert on Saturn trouble codes, and which ones turn on the MIL and which ones don’t but I would bet a lunch that not all trouble codes set the light. ONLY emission related codes turn on the light on any car I have ever worked on. A trouble code by itself will not cause a failure, only a MIL. So calm down, a bad A/C switch won’t cause you to fail. ---
**Author:** ![dwayne\_mills](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dwayne\_mills](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwayne_mills)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/36 "2010-09-03T19:33:31Z")
i have a 1992 toyota corolla it failed Hydrocarbons @15mph it measured 151 but the spec was 130 but passed with flying colors @ 25mph anyway the smog station could not give me any information on what to do about it so i talked to a mechanic he told me Hydrocarbons was unburnt fuel in the tail pipe he told me to change my air filter pcv valve spark plugs and rotor and oil did that took it back on the freeway for 15 miles and went back to the same smog station for a retest this time it passed hydrocarbons at 15mph but failed @ 25 mph spec was 75 or something like that and it measured 83 forgot to tell you i had already put a can of crc that was guaranteed to make it pass before i had it tested the 1st time anyway jumping ahead went back to the mechanic told him what happen the second time he then told me to put some 91 octane in the tank and add some 104 octane buster did that took it back on the freeway for 30 miles never turned of the engine and brung it back to the smog station waited and hour for my turn this time it passed with flying colors ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/37 "2010-09-03T19:46:13Z")
Dude, back off on the caffeine. Around here we believe in punctuation, capitalization and not bumping threads that are 6 fucking years old! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/38 "2010-09-03T19:54:40Z")
Four more years and it won’t require emissions tests. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/39 "2010-09-03T22:45:31Z")
> [@LordVor](#): > > Hey, at least they quit charging a few extra hundred dollars in “out of state emission” fees if you bring in a car from out of state that freaken PASSES California emissions tests. > > -lv The $300.00 fee was applied to each vehicle that was not designed for California emission standards in the 90’s. Not happy about this fee, but presumed my car would not meet the CARB requirements, but would allow me to drive the car after paying a penalty. Passed the smog test with flying colors and found out the newer California car in front of me actually did a little worse (but still passed). Great! No smog fee. Sadly, I discover payment is _still_ required before registering the car in California.:mad::mad::mad: Of course, this means war. A quick consultation with an acquaintance lawyer suggested that the fee might violate the commerce clause in the US Constitution. The legal fees, however, give me pause. Later, gripping about the injustice, a co-worker offers me $500.00 to help pay for the legal fees should I decide to pursue it. One of those, “Wow, people really hate this law so much, they’ll pay money just on principle,” moments. “Hey! Maybe I could get a few donations, perhaps some _pro bono_ work.” And so, I, the non-lawyer spent a Saturday afternoon in a library’s government section trying to figure out how the law came into being. The law passed because California’s state government was running a large deficit as a result of a recession and the end of the Cold War. The feds had cut back in defense spending and the state was especially vulnerable to these cutbacks (even in '96, I could get assumable mortgages in San Diego from former defense workers who looking to leave for the lack of work). As a result, the state was looking for any revenue by whatever means necessary. A smog fee was a great way for state to take advantage of the continuing immigration of out-of-state residents. A little research in the local library tells me, however, this law is suspect: a legislature analyst commentary stated the law will never hold up in court because it violated California’s Constitution. On the following Monday, trying to make up my mind about pursuing lawsuit, someone informs me that they saw a newspaper article about it. A group of “They-Shall-Be-Called-The-Haters-Of-The-Smog-Fee” in Sacramento filed a lawsuit against the Ca DMV to overturn the fee and refund the money on the grounds that it violated the the US Constitution and California’s Constitution commerce clauses. At that point, I chickened out, deciding that my money would be better invested in a 401(k) since there’s a fund selection especially tailored to all those dot-com companies. Ultimately, the smog fee was declared [unconstitutional](http://www.stevebray.com/C028340.htm). Whatever the case, about three years after paying the fee, a call from my Dad informs me that the case was finally settled in the plaintiffs favor (I’m out of state at that point). You had to apply for the refund, but a few months later I had a check for a little more than $500. :D. Which was more than I can say for dot-com investments ☹ ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075/40 "2010-09-04T20:05:55Z")
Well shit a brick–where do you apply for that refund and how much documentation do you need? Because I bought an out of state Toyota truck back circa '94-'95 and had to pay that fucking fee and I’m still a little pissed off about it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smog-check-in-california/266075.md?page=3)