# smokers pay **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2002, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070 "2002-07-02T18:15:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/21 "2002-07-04T06:05:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMark \* > \*\*For all the smug non-smokers who think this is a great idea - I would agree as long as they raise the taxes for french fries for fat people (heart disease and space on airline seats) and they should also increase tax on booze (DUI’s, heart problems, obnoxiousness) and they should also start to tax Pampers (horrible unecological non-biodegradable landfill mess) and aftershave/perfume (air pollutant for anybody within a 20 foot radius) and SUV’s (gas swilling hogs) and… \*\* Ok, sure, why not? Sounds like a plan to me. I wouldn’t be effected by any of those things- I don’t drink, or have kids or drive an SUV or use perfume and I’m not fat- so can I still be smug? 😃 You have a point, sort of, though. If they’re going to tax cigarettes because of their cost to society, they ought to tax other things that endanger public health, like alcohol. It doesn’t seem fair to not tax alcohol as highly when it contibutes to drunk driving deaths probably as often as people get cancer from second hand smoke. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/22 "2002-07-04T06:10:57Z")
Smug non-smokers? tax on french fries? drinking? The difference between smoking and most other vices (and the reason why I think we smug non-smokers have a right to despise the act of smoking) is this. eating fries doesn’t make people near you fat. drinking alcohol doesn’t make people near you drunk, but smoking **does** damage the lungs of people near you! And why should I get up and move somewhere if some dirty old hag sits into the seat next to mine and lights up? spreading the vile exhaust to all the people around her! I fucking hate that attitude that some smokers have - there was this pretentius gossip show just for women where they were talking about smoking. one told a story where she was in a restraunt , someone came up to her and said “would you mind not smoking near us?” to which she replied “would you mind not eating near me” … and she expected praise for such wit?? well the other thoughtless presenters of the show gave her praise. but she doesn’t fucking deserve it - eating isn’t a foul disgusting **spreading** habit. it is a necesity. think for one second woman before you say something deeply stupid and thoughtless as - “would you mind not eating near me” to people who ask you not to polute their air with your crap habit. what makes it worse is - this was in a restraunt, where people are , like, supposed to be , er, eating! BTW I have great respect for smokers who go out of their way to do it away from non-smokers. ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/23 "2002-07-04T06:20:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lobsang \* > **drinking alcohol doesn’t make people near you drunk,** No, it only kills the people in the other car you smash into on your way home. It only causes cirrhosis of the liver. It’s only a major factor in spousal/familial abuse. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > **what makes it worse is - this was in a restraunt, where people are , like, supposed to be , er, eating!** Presumably it was in the _smoking_ section of the restaurant, too! You know another thing that gets me: the advertisements/warning that smoking causes low birth weight. Ha–I was 11 pounds, 14 ounces at birth; my older sister was 7 pounds, 9 ounces. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/24 "2002-07-04T07:33:43Z")
They’re going up another $1.00/pack here in Pennsylvania. How can you tax something for more than twice what the original cost was?! I literally **have to** stop smoking…the only way I can continue to afford it now is to start robbing banks, liquor stores, and gas stations. jayjay ---
**Author:** ![Andy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/aeb1de/32.png) [@Andy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/25 "2002-07-04T08:05:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > They’re going up another $1.00/pack here in Pennsylvania. How can you tax something for more than twice what the original cost was?! I literally **have to** stop smoking…the only way I can continue to afford it now is to start robbing banks, liquor stores, and gas stations. Here in the UK, we’ve reached a kind of equilibrium. Those who can easily afford to smoke continue to do so with no change in habit. Those who can’t now supplement with either roll ups (legal), get friends to bring them cigarettes back from trips abroad (legal? possibly depends if they sell or give them to their friends), or buy illegally imported tabs in bars or other places from, well, smugglers. I know of very few people who’ve quit or cut down because of the cost. Of course it would be a lot easier if patches and nicotine gum weren’t so prohibitively expensive. Cost of nicotine from suppliers? 25g (that’s a hell of a lot of fixes!)…about $20. Must be damned expensive gum they put it in. Like all taxes, an increase in rate doesn’t necessarily correlate with an increase in revenue. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/26 "2002-07-04T09:05:02Z")
You do not want to sell me death sticks, you want to go home and re-think your life. ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/27 "2002-07-04T09:44:22Z")
Some years back Washington state bumped the taxes up on cigarettes. Everytime they needed money for something, taxes on smokes went up. My friends and I decided we wanted to dress up like indians, go down to the port, find a boat with a cigarette shipment and dump it into the harbour. Of course, we could never figure out which boats (of any) contained cigarettes and we didn’t know anyone who worked at the port. Too bad. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/28 "2002-07-04T10:01:50Z")
I imagine it wouldn’t have been practical anyway, not while wearing a Sari. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/29 "2002-07-04T10:47:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Seven \* > \*\*Some years back Washington state bumped the taxes up on cigarettes. Everytime they needed money for something, taxes on smokes went up. > \*\* I’d be very interested to see where the tobacco taxes go. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/30 "2002-07-04T14:33:59Z")
My state, Michigan, just this week passed yet another hefty tax increase on smokers, in an effort to balance our messed-up budget. [Cite](http://www.detnews.com/2002/politics/0207/04/a06-529549.htm) These taxes will go for a variety of things that are in no way smoking- or even health-related. For that reason, it seems to me unfair to single out smokers. Nor do I think putting a lot of emphasis on sin taxes is a good fiscal idea. As mentioned above, what if it has the supposedly desired effect, and people start quitting in droves? As Michigan’s cig taxes are now among the highest in the nation, this new hike may be the straw that breaks the Camel-smokers’ backs. [hee-hee] [sub](FWIW, I’m a former smoker who quit many, many years ago.)[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Francesca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9fc348/32.png) [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/31 "2002-07-04T16:17:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*You do not want to sell me death sticks, you want to go home and re-think your life. \*\* I… do not want to sell you death sticks. I… want to go home and rethink my life. [sub]Hey! How did that happen?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/32 "2002-07-04T18:15:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Milossarian \* > My state, Michigan, just this week passed yet another hefty tax increase on smokers, in an effort to balance our messed-up budget. [Cite](http://www.detnews.com/2002/politics/0207/04/a06-529549.htm) The odd thing is, and this is just from what I hear from the news, no quotes nor cites but, a good majority of those that smoke are lower income. Again, I heard this so it might be completely a generalization but from my experience it seems to be true. So MI is gaining more taxes off those less able to pay them. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/33 "2002-07-04T19:29:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squish \* > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally posted by Lobsang > > drinking alcohol doesn’t make people near you drunk, > > No, it only kills the people in the other car you smash into on your way home. That’s only if you hop into the vehicle and drive it whilst under the influence. Smoking the evil weed tobacco next to others who aren’t smoking doesn’t require you to do anything other than ignite the coffin nail to affect others. You don’t even have to drive. > [@](#): > > It only causes cirrhosis of the liver. That would be an individual effect, now wouldn’t it? After all, if I drink something, I’m not doing any damage to your liver. > [@](#): > > It’s only a major factor in spousal/familial abuse. Well, financial difficulties also contribute to family “situations.” Let’s outlaw money! > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > what makes it worse is - this was in a restraunt, where people are , like, supposed to be , er, eating! > > Presumably it was in the smoking section of the restaurant, too! Most likely. I’m curious, though; exactly how does the restaurant keep the smoke confined to that section? > [@](#): > > You know another thing that gets me: the advertisements/warning that smoking causes low birth weight. Ha–I was 11 pounds, 14 ounces at birth; my older sister was 7 pounds, 9 ounces. Ah, so you’re unfamiliar with the way statistics work. ---
**Author:** ![Daerlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Daerlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daerlyn)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/34 "2002-07-04T19:56:25Z")
Raising taxes on cigarettes here in quebec has been tried before, and the price went back down. The government just raised it by two dollars, but I have faith that it’ll go down again. Why? Two words: Black Market. The last time Quebec raised cigarette taxes, they actually started losing money. ---
**Author:** ![scott\_evil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@scott\_evil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scott_evil)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/35 "2002-07-04T19:59:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Daerlyn \* > \*\*Raising taxes on cigarettes here in quebec has been tried before, and the price went back down. The government just raised it by two dollars, but I have faith that it’ll go down again. Why? Two words: Black Market. > > The last time Quebec raised cigarette taxes, they actually started losing money. \*\* Ah, the days of buying contraband cigarettes from the “special” depanneur up on Clark… ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/36 "2002-07-04T23:20:55Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Squish \* > \*\* No, it only kills the people in the other car you smash into on your way home. It only causes cirrhosis of the liver. It’s only a major factor in spousal/familial abuse. :rolleyes: > Presumably it was in the smoking section of the restaurant, too!_\* Gee, I didn’t expect anyone to remind me of that. It’s beside the point. It’s an anomoly. You used exceptional circumstances as an example of how alcohol is harmful to others. I used common circumstances as an example of how smoking is harmful to others. Not all drinkers (I don’t mean alcoholics, I mean people who drink at all) mow people down in their cars, not all of them abuse their spouse. BUT ALL smokers harm the lungs of those near them. ---
**Author:** ![Corrvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbce88/32.png) [@Corrvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corrvin)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2002, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/37 "2002-07-05T00:00:04Z")
> [@](#): > > BUT ALL smokers harm the lungs of those near them. While smoking once upon the stair, I met a man who wasn’t there. He wasn’t there again today. Whose lungs did I pollute, I say? Corr who doesn’t smoke in front of people who don’t smoke ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2002, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/38 "2002-07-05T00:15:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > **That’s only if you hop into the vehicle and drive it whilst under the influence. Smoking the evil weed tobacco next to others who aren’t smoking doesn’t require you to do anything other than ignite the coffin nail to affect others. You don’t even have to drive.** I’m rather skeptical of the “second-hand smoke” propaganda, myself. > [@](#): > > **That would be an individual effect, now wouldn’t it? After all, if I drink something, I’m not doing any damage to your liver.** I thought it germane to include, as one of the arguments against smoking is that smokers have higher health care costs. > [@](#): > > **Most likely. I’m curious, though; exactly how does the restaurant keep the smoke confined to that section?** By separating those sections and the use of air filters/cleaners. > [@](#): > > \*\*Ah, so you’re unfamiliar with the way statistics work. \*\* No; I’m _very_ familiar with “how to lie with statistics”. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2002, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/39 "2002-07-05T01:40:10Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Squish \* > \*\* I’m rather skeptical of the “second-hand smoke” propaganda, myself._\* Could I roll my eyes any harder? ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2002, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070/40 "2002-07-05T01:56:48Z")
My favorite second hand smoke statement was from a PR lady from Phillip Morris, I belive. She was being interviewed on a morning show about some new studies about second hand smoke and she continued to rail about how safe it was to smoke around others. Finally the interviewer (Paula Zahn, possibly) said in total exasperaton “So you’re telling me that you would smoke no matter who was around? Even a baby right in your arms?” and this bitch says “Well, of course not. You might burn the baby”. I rolled my eyes clean out of my head. Zette [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smokers-pay/117070.md?page=3)