# Smoking Age **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 5, 2023, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140 "2023-10-05T11:57:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/41 "2023-10-06T21:56:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not even close. The deaths caused by Second hand Smoke are mostly cause dby smoking in the home, around children and the elderly. You’re right of course. What I was thinking of was all the people who ban smoking in their home so visitors go ourside to do it. Bans like that would’ve been considered anti-social in the days when I was young, but are routine now. My condo bans smoking completely, even on the balconies. Still I believe that outlawing it, even in slices as proposed, will lead to all the negative consequences that the other wars on drugs have. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/42 "2023-10-06T22:17:58Z")
I’m of many minds on the issue. I don’t smoke, but my grandparents did (sometimes around us), and my mother and step father did (although they tried very hard not to do it around us). It absolutely contributed to the early death of two of my grandparents as well. I think that overall the health consequences for the direct users could be managed via various legislation, and I’m glad I’m young enough that most of memories eye-watering, smoke dimmed family restaurants are generally with age. Still, second hand smoke is a real and lingering problem. I’m sure we’ve all seen it, that the rules tends to be enforced… unevenly. Every workplace and public area I’ve been has signs about “no smoking within X feet” and every single one has been disregarded with minimal if any enforcement. So we’re all far better off (well non-smokers) than even my personal memory, but still suffering despite the existing laws. Honestly, despite my wishes for a perfect world (and boooy do I have a long list), I think that especially in the US, the reactionary efforts against even such a time-derived ban would result in unspeakable scorched earth state-by-state refusals. Not to mention refusal to enforce such laws that would make the conflicts of MJ legislation look tame. No, I think even slow acting bans are doomed for at least another generation, but as outlook and markets change, it should be kept as a viable possibility 15-20 years down the line perhaps. However, I see few to any problems (again borrowing from MJ legislation) to once again increase state and/or federal taxes on all tobacco products, to be applied to research on cancer, or some other largely non-political public welfare benefit. Not so high as to lead to a de facto ban (and to prevent the rise of large scale black marketing) but enough to subsidize some of the societal costs and even save a few smokers! IE instead of say, $8 a pack (which seems to be roughly the average right now), if it were $10 a pack, you might get smokers to cut down even just one a day, to make a pack stretch farther. It wouldn’t help much, to be sure, but I don’t see a great deal of harm at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/43 "2023-10-06T22:42:21Z")
I grew up in a house of smokers. Both parents smoked - a lot. I remember being fascinated by the way she could puff away on a fag while preparing a meal - the ash tip getting longer and longer until it finally fell off. I smoked as a teenager and into my twenties, but more as a social thing, since almost everyone I knew also smoked. Eventually, my decision to give up was driven by the combined factors of anti-smoking propaganda and rising costs. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2023, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/44 "2023-10-06T23:07:02Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Still I believe that outlawing it, even in slices as proposed, will lead to all the negative consequences that the other wars on drugs have. Well, first of all, it wont be like Prohibition. Some 60-70% of adults drank. Currently, about 15% of Americans smoke. So, there’s a HUGE difference. And smokeless, the patch, nicotine gum, and vaping would all be allowed, so it’d be like if prohibition had allowed beer and wine, like people thought it was going to. In other words, there would be a way for smokers to get their fix. Not the same at all… ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/45 "2023-10-07T09:30:53Z")
The USA already has more severe restrictions on who can drink alcohol and where it can be purchased. Of course, it varies between States, but I understand that in many cases a 20-year-old adult is breaking the law if they have wine with a meal, and in many States, one has to buy from a State Liquor Store. Contrast with the UK, where a 14-year-old can legally have wine with a meal and booze of all kinds is on sale at outlets from tiny village stores (where they still survive) to major supermarkets, as well as specialist stores. Across the Channel, there are even fewer restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/46 "2023-10-07T10:21:47Z")
I don’t understand how Sunak’s proposal will work in practise. The legal age to buy cigarettes will rise by one year, every year. Therefore, anyone who is too young to smoke today will always be too young to smoke. What’s going to happen in thirty years, when smoking is prohibited for anyone under 45? Will newsagents have to card people in their mid-forties? I can’t imagine them complying with that. How will it be enforced? Will the police be sending in 44 year olds to buy cigarettes from newsagents in sting operations? When two friends in their mid-forties both go into a store to buy cigarettes, will the eighteen year old behind the counter have to deny one and serve the other because the first is a month too young? It all sounds so silly that it’s difficult to imagine anyone taking it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/47 "2023-10-07T10:46:46Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > What’s going to happen in thirty years, when smoking is prohibited for anyone under 45? That is the thought that I had as well. Of course, it pre-supposes that there will be anyone still selling cigarettes. Only about 12% of the UK population are currently smokers and that number is steadily falling. With fewer new smokers becoming addicted, the demand may eventually be so low that it will no longer be profitable for stores to stock them. It may well have become routine for smokers to produce ID at the point of sale. Friends in their mid-forties will, no doubt, get the older one to make the purchase to avoid embarrassment. Currently, a pack of cigarettes costs nearly 10% of an average working person’s daily wage. Who knows what it will be in thirty years? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/48 "2023-10-07T12:52:37Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > IE instead of say, $8 a pack (which seems to be roughly the average right now), if it were $10 a pack, you might get smokers to cut down even just one a day, to make a pack stretch farther. My dad smoked cigarettes. When I was a kid I remember him saying he’d quit if the price ever went above fifty cents a pack. As prices rose, so did the goalposts. Lucky Strikes, then Camels. > [@Beckdawrek](#): > > My Daddy smoked a pipe. I loved his aroma. The first time my daughter smelled burning cannabis in the wild, she was in kindergarten. Her friend told her the odor was DRUGS! My daughter told her she was crazy, the odor was what her dad smelled like and it was good. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/49 "2023-10-07T14:39:56Z")
I sometimes wonder is I am actually allergic to tobacco. If I am in a room with a lot of lingering smell, and full ashtrays, but no one actually smoking, I still get itchy red patches of skin anywhere it’s exposed (arms and face, mostly), and my eyes get red and run, and I sneeze a lot. Had a similar, but less severe reaction after walking through several rooms of tobacco leaves on display at the Kentucky state fair, and a itchy red patch where I brushed up against one. I find it difficult to breath in a room where there’s lots of smoke. Have documented allergies to grass and angiosperms. Have to take Benadryl in order to walk into a florist’s. So I find cigarette bans appealing. Very much. But honestly, in places where current laws are strictly enforced, like medical facilities, I’m fine. Only places I have any kind of reaction are restaurants that are supposed to ban it at their outdoor tables, but don’t, and it comes in the doors-- those kind of places tend to let employees smoke in backrooms and offices, even though they aren’t supposed to do that either. Makes a meal unpleasant for me if the server reeks of stale tobacco. Also bugs me when I’m in a place where there are butts all over the ground, although that has nothing to do with allergies. But what the hell makes smokers think that a butt isn’t littering? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/50 "2023-10-07T15:26:38Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > But what the hell makes smokers think that a butt isn’t littering? > [@Things the Dope has made you notice](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/things-the-dope-has-made-you-notice/366832/16): > > That cigarette butts are litter. When I was still smoking (4 months smoke-free and counting!), I honestly didn’t think of cigarette butts as a littering problem and would gaily flick them off into the street or grind them underfoot. It had simply never occured to me that I was littering, as I’d never just throw down a sandwich wrapper or drinks can - I thought poorly of people who did, and would tut and fuss before happily chucking the remains of my cig on the ground. Then on one of the annual … (Probably referring to this thread or another one like it:) > [@Yes, cigarette butts are litter.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/yes-cigarette-butts-are-litter/83058): > > Hey, asshole in traffic in front of me! I know you’re not going to believe this, but I don’t give a flying fuck if you smoke! I am not out to get you and take away your precious right to light up. I just don’t care. Bbut you know what? Be a grownup about it. Act like a fucking responsible adult, and keep your damn cigarette butt in your damn car ashtray instead of tossing in on the ground like a pathetic teen rebel without a clue. The world ain’t your ashtray. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/51 "2023-10-07T20:22:07Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Of course, it varies between States, but I understand that in many cases a 20-year-old adult is breaking the law if they have wine with a meal, > **[Alcohol Laws: Who Can Buy, Sell, or Drink Alcohol](https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/alcohol-laws)** > > Alcohol laws set legal limits on who can drink, buy, or sell alcohol, and even how much alcohol in your blood means you’re drunk. Some alcohol laws are national, but states and counties have their own laws too. Find out when it’s legal for people... _It’s not always illegal for people under 21 to drink. In 45 states, laws allow underage drinking in certain situations._ - In 29 states, someone under 21 may drink with their parent’s permission if it’s in a private residence or on private property.\* And in general a minor having a beer with their parents at home is not something the law cares about. > [@WalterBishop](#): > > It all sounds so silly that it’s difficult to imagine anyone taking it seriously. The same arguments were made when the raised the age to 21, but it works just fine. > [@bob\_2](#): > > That is the thought that I had as well. Of course, it pre-supposes that there will be anyone still selling cigarettes. > > Only about 12% of the UK population are currently smokers and that number is steadily falling. With fewer new smokers becoming addicted, the demand may eventually be so low that it will no longer be profitable for stores to stock them. Right. And here in CA, they have restrictions on who can sell and you have to have a license- which can be taken away. There are proposals to limit the sale to specialized smoke shops. > [@bob\_2](#): > > It may well have become routine for smokers to produce ID at the point of sale. It is already routine in many places for everyone to produce ID at the point of sale for booze. > [@RivkahChaya](#): > > But what the hell makes smokers think that a butt isn’t littering? I used to know one ex-military guy who always field stripped his cigs when out. Other than him, pretty much all smokers are littering pigs. Butts are the most littered item on Earth. > **[Attitudes, Beliefs, and Behaviors about Cigarette-Butt Littering among...](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9265565/)** > > This study reports attitudes, beliefs, and littering behaviors of 7532 college-aged cigarette smokers from across the United States. Four behavioral variables were measured: littering of last cigarette butt, number of butts littered in past 24 h,... Many children are poisoned by butts- [https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00046181.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00046181.htm) _During 1995, the American Association of Poison Control Centers (AAPCC) received 7917 reports of potentially toxic exposures to tobacco products among children aged less than or equal to 6 years in the United States (1). Most cases of nicotine poisoning among children result from their ingestion of cigarettes or cigars (2)._ > **[Youth & Tobacco | Live Well Sioux Falls](https://livewellsiouxfalls.org/breathe-well/youth-tobacco/)** > > Live Well Sioux Falls is a health initiative designed to improve the health and well-being of Sioux Falls residents. - _In the United States, more than 6.3 million children under age 18 alive today will eventually die from smoking-related disease, unless current rates are reversed._ _Secondhand smoke exposure causes as many as 300,000 children in the US under the age of 18 months to suffer lower respiratory tract. infections (like pneumonia and_ _bronchitis), exacerbates childhood asthma and increases risk of acute, chronic, middle ear infections.![]_ - Secondhand smoke can trigger asthma episodes and increase severity of attacks.\* - Cigarettes are the most littered item in the U.S.\* _American poison control centers received nearly 8,000 reports in one year of children poisoned by the ingestion of cigarette butts._ So, not only are smokers killing tens of thousands of kids a year through second hand smoke, they are poisoning thousands by their butts. Note that number- _smokers will kill more than SIX MILLION KIDS._ But people still talk about “smokers rights”. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/52 "2023-10-07T20:30:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Note that number- _smokers will kill more than SIX MILLION KIDS._ 1. That’s not what it says. 2. I’d like to see the scientific basis for that claim. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/53 "2023-10-07T20:34:19Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > That’s not what it says. > [@DrDeth](#): > > In the United States, more than 6.3 million children under age 18 alive today will eventually die from smoking-related disease, unless current rates are reversed. Indeed it does. Yes, most of them will die from being smokers themselves, but still, smoking will kill 6 million + kids. There are dozens and dozens of scientific peer reviewed and CDC cites about smoking deaths. Find the one you like or just live in denial. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/54 "2023-10-07T20:43:58Z")
We can’t have a conversation if you misrepresent information. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2023, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/55 "2023-10-07T23:58:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Indeed it does. Yes, most of them will die from being smokers themselves, but still, smoking will kill 6 million + kids. That is not what it says. At all. “They will eventually” does not mean they will die as kids. It means they will die from smoke related causes at some point, it could be when they are 75. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/56 "2023-10-08T00:53:44Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > “They will eventually” does not mean they will die as kids. It means they will die from smoke related causes at some point, it could be when they are 75. That is true. But at this point in time, they _are_ kids. That is exactly what the cite says- > [@DrDeth](#): > > in the United States, more than 6.3 million children under age 18 alive today will eventually die from smoking-related disease, unless current rates are reversed. And there is this- > [@DrDeth](#): > > _Secondhand smoke exposure causes as many as 300,000 children in the US under the age of 18 months to suffer lower respiratory tract. infections (like pneumonia and_ > _bronchitis), exacerbates childhood asthma and increases risk of acute, chronic, middle ear infections.![]_ ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/57 "2023-10-08T03:19:52Z")
Oh, I had zero expectation that it would stop more than the tiniest percentage. No more than increasing costs have stopped some of my friends from their pente-venti Starbucks addiction who swore much the same as your father. But If the cost makes them suddenly decide that instead of stretching a pack to 2 days, to making in stretch to 3 days, it’s still a win. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/58 "2023-10-08T10:48:55Z")
Regardless of any new laws, it is my personal opinion that peer pressure and rising prices will eventually make all but the most determined smokers give up. I was in London last week and drove through the City. I only go there rarely and it suddenly struck me that the last time was about ten years ago, not long after smoking indoors was banned. Back then, there were little groups of smokers outside every office block - last week I did not see any. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/59 "2023-10-08T12:56:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The same arguments were made when the raised the age to 21, but it works just fine. Raising the smoking age to match the drinking age is one thing, raising it every year to the point where eighteen year olds will be telling 60 year olds they’re too young to buy a pack of Marlboros is quite another. I can’t imagine anyone complying with the latter. If nothing else, they’d just be too embarrassed. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/60 "2023-10-08T16:39:53Z")
I think it’s a worthy goal, but I think it’s likely to be unsuccessful. What I’d rather see would be a prohibition on marketing nicotine to minors (yeah, that’s theoretically in place already, but widely ignored), and specifically a prohibition on flavored nicotine products. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140.md?page=4)