# Smoking Age **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 5, 2023, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140 "2023-10-05T11:57:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/81 "2023-10-11T17:40:49Z")
Just want to point out that statistics need to be taken with a grain of salt. I know a guy who died recently from lung cancer and emphysema. Lifelong smoker. But he was 84 when he died, still puffing away. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/82 "2023-10-11T19:38:38Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > How many of those 480,000 people would have never died had they not smoked? I’m gonna say “what is none, Alex”. Immortality is something that our AI overlords will have to figure out. I don’t believe that humans have that knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/83 "2023-10-11T20:30:59Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > In the US alone, smoking related illnesses costs society more than $300 billion annually, mostly in the form of medical care. And in the US more than 480,000 deaths annually are attributed to smoking related illnesses. This is compared to about 48,000 annual deaths from guns, which includes suicides. Smoking is a much bigger problem than guns. And, stopping smoking would help make UHC more affordable. > [@kayaker](#): > > How many of those 480,000 people would have never died had they not smoked? This is so far, the most silly argument I have seen posted on the SDMB. That I remember, anyway. Remember, second hand smoke kills over 40K a year in America, and a good number of them are children. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/84 "2023-10-11T21:17:12Z")
The senior broker asked, “You must be crazy! How can you issue a life insurance policy to a 110-year-old?” The salesman replied, “I carefully checked the actuarial tables and no 110-year-olds have died in the last five years. ---
**Author:** ![Cugel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cugel/32/1199_2.png) [@Cugel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cugel)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2023, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/85 "2023-10-13T08:34:59Z")
> [@WhyKickAMooCow](#): > > thin end of the wedge, what other stuff will they outlaw in the future This was a recurring theme when NZ did it, people crapping their daks, afraid that it might actually work. To borrow from Chomsky “the threat of good example” ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/86 "2023-11-05T00:20:37Z")
that’s why I objected to banning smoking in bars–as long as I warn customers/employers that there’s smoking, they are free to enter or go elsewhere. Choice ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/87 "2023-11-05T00:31:49Z")
Except when nobody was willing to make a no-smoking bar. So there was no choice. You could go to a smoky bar or you could stay home. But once the non-smoking bar ice was broken, suddenly everyone realized there was more money in non-smoking bars than in smoking bars. Far more money. Often society will settle into decidedly non-optimal spots and only the dynamite of government action can move society to something that’s better for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/88 "2023-11-05T03:20:49Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The same arguments were made when the raised the age to 21, but it works just fine. Raising the drinking age to 21 has been somewhat of a disaster. Back in the day, college kids drank, but they had adult supervision. Some of them even modeled adult behavior and drank in moderation. Today, college kids drink. But they can’t drink where anyone responsible can see them. So they have completely unsupervised parties, “pregame”, drink excessively in frats, … Binge drinking is far more common than it used to be, especially among the young. And a lot of them continue binge drinking after they can drink legally, because those are the habits they have learned. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/89 "2023-11-05T12:58:19Z")
I suspect the analogous problems occur with sex. If the Baptist States of Americaduh weren’t all prude-like, kids could be taught to do the responsible-ish thing from the age the urge first appeared. Not have 3 or 8 years of secret under-the-table clueless gettin’ it on before they can come out into the light and talk about it with anyone older. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/90 "2023-11-05T13:38:13Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > everyone realized there was more money in non-smoking bars than in smoking bars. I do not use tobacco. I love that most bars and breweries are now no smoking. But every so often I’ll stop at this dark&seedy bar with dirty ashtrays everywhere. Typically I’m the only one not smoking. I have a draft beer or two then head home, where my gf freaks out and tells me to shower pronto. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/91 "2023-11-05T13:41:03Z")
I never smoked. But I used to live in dark & seedy places like that back when smoking was the norm. Because those places had the best music. It was quite the relief when non-smoking happened and then I didn’t have to get fully undressed outdoors in the snow then run naked from front door to shower upon my return. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/92 "2023-11-05T15:20:42Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Raising the drinking age to 21 has been somewhat of a disaster. Back in the day, college kids drank, but they had adult supervision. I strongly favor a lower drinking age, and partially because it keeps it out of the shadows as you say. However, the drinking age was 18 when I was in college and I can assure you there was no “adult” supervision anywhere. We weren’t hiding anything, but there simply were no adults around. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/93 "2023-11-05T15:23:33Z")
Huh, when i was in college, we had cocktail parties run by adults that were very decorous, and we had keg parties run by students that were pretty wild, but had adults in the wings, and support for bringing really drunk students to student health services. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/94 "2023-11-05T15:28:22Z")
Other than a security guard in an office in some building far from the dorms, or a professor working late in their office, I don’t think there were non-student adults on our campus after dark. Maybe there was someone in the library? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/95 "2023-11-05T15:39:52Z")
I just learned to drink at home with family when I was underage. But I’ll second what **LSLGuy** said above—when smoking was socially acceptable, it was unavoidable, and to those of us who weren’t willing to be around it, we were cut off from things like, for example, good live music. I suppose the question is who has to choose: smokers, or non-smokers? There is no separate but equal. I still don’t support a smoking or drinking age above the age of majority. It’s ridiculous to be an adult without access to adult privileges. On the other hand, I’d be thrilled if nobody at all smoked and nobody drank to excess, while simultaneously having the freedom to do so. How to manage that is a trick. In my darker moments I just imagine an instant death penalty, administered by any concerned citizen, for littering cigarette butts or packaging. That proposal might have a few problems of its own, though. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/96 "2023-11-05T15:44:27Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > On the other hand, I’d be thrilled if nobody at all smoked and nobody drank to excess, while simultaneously having the freedom to do so Define drinking “to excess”. When I drink, I drink an amount that satisfies my thirst. To me, I _never_ drink to excess. I’m certain others would disagree, but I’m not gonna adopt their definitions. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/97 "2023-11-05T15:52:25Z")
If countries passed federal laws outlawing tobacco products people would cry like babies for a few days after a couple of weeks, it would start to quiet down and after a few months all of the ex-smokers would be thanking the government for out lawing smokes. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/98 "2023-11-05T15:54:06Z")
For me, “to excess” = “drunk (beyond mildly tipsy),” but I think a more reasonable definition would be “where the drinking causes harm to others or extreme harm to the self.” My cousin died of alcoholism, so that’s always my go-to example for “too far.” My husband drinks a lot—way more than I’m comfortable with—but he doesn’t drink irresponsibility or behave badly when drinking or anything, and can afford it, so I chalk that up to “my problem” and let him get on with it! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/99 "2023-11-05T17:23:46Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > My cousin died of alcoholism, so that’s always my go-to example for “too far.” I’m sorry for your loss. That said, a good friend’s dad died in his 30s due to nutritional problems caused by his alcoholism. My friend is an alcoholic _but_ he eats a healthy diet and takes a vitamin regimen formulated by his doctor in light of his alcoholism. He (and maybe I) will likely die of or with a cirrhotic liver but I don’t view either of us as drinking to excess. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2023, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140/100 "2023-11-05T17:25:03Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > My husband drinks a lot—way more than I’m comfortable with—but he doesn’t drink irresponsibility or behave badly when drinking or anything, and can afford it, so I chalk that up to “my problem” and let him get on with it! My gf would say (and has said) the same about me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-age/991140.md?page=6)