# Smoking in movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 18, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864 "2014-09-18T19:57:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MrSBaldrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/87869e/32.png) [@MrSBaldrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSBaldrick)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/41 "2014-09-23T03:14:21Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > My fear for the future, when everything is in The Cloud, that THEY will digitally erase all the smoking in old movies, like Winston (heh heh, Winston) Smith’s job in _1984_. There won’t be any unaltered copies, except those that us old timers will have in our personal DVD collections. And without those old hard copies, no one will be able to prove it was ever there. And they’ll justify it as being for our own good. > > And my biggest fear? That no one will care! Double-plus good. Our work here is done. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/42 "2014-09-23T05:23:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well, [that scene in _The Day the Earth Stood Still_](http://www.metacafe.com/watch/hl-6128915/the_day_the_earth_stood_still_witchdoctor/) wouldn’t be nearly as hilarious without the smoking. Though I’m not sure that that was quite exactly the intention there… Page not found. Care to summarize what your point is? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/43 "2014-09-23T13:27:18Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > The most annoying and unjustified smoking in films has to be anything by James Cameron. It was bad enough in _Titanic_ with his sleazy explanation that he wanted to “show that they were rebels”,… Showing Rose smoking a cigarette implies quite a bit about her - that she is not happy with the status quo and very much wants to be modern. It matches much of the other parts of her and says, hey, she’s a rebellious modern girl who is rather cheeky to her parents! Smoking by women in the 1910’s was on the cutting edge of acceptability - it was sort of like twerking is today - something that is becoming quite popular but isn’t quite what “good girls” do. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/44 "2014-09-23T14:16:30Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Page not found. > > Care to summarize what your point is? [Try this.](http://www.metacafe.com/watch/hl-6128915/the_day_the_earth_stood_still_witchdoctor/) The hilarity should be obvious. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/45 "2014-09-23T15:13:15Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > The most annoying and unjustified smoking in films Unjustified? Why would any aspect of a film character’s behavior need justification? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/46 "2014-09-23T15:27:50Z")
In one of John Wayne’s movies (_ **Flying Leathernecks** _, maybe), he’s getting a physical from a military doctor who, IIRC, offers him a cigarette before lighting up himself. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/47 "2014-09-23T15:40:24Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Unjustified? Why would any aspect of a film character’s behavior need justification? Because it’s a _aspect of the film character’s behavior_ which has been inserted artificially due to bribes from Big Tobacco, who kills 500000 people in the USA every year, including 50000 NON-smokers. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/48 "2014-09-23T15:49:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Because it’s a _aspect of the film character’s behavior_ which has been inserted artificially due to bribes from Big Tobacco, who kills 500000 people in the USA every year, including 50000 NON-smokers. But in fiction, every aspect of a film character’s behavior is artificial. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/49 "2014-09-23T15:59:55Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > [Try this.](http://www.metacafe.com/watch/hl-6128915/the_day_the_earth_stood_still_witchdoctor/) > > The hilarity should be obvious. Still getting page not found. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/50 "2014-09-23T16:36:50Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > One of Arthur C. Clarke’s late novels (I forget which one) described 20th-century films being digitally altered to remove smoking, because people in the future found it so repulsive. At the time he wrote that, I didn’t think it was likely, but now I’m not so sure. It was one of the _Rama_ sequels. I’m not going to bother trying to figure out which one. I detest smoking in all forms in real life in but there are certainly times where it is important to the story or setting in a film, especially a period piece like _Good night and Good Luck_ or _The Man Who Wasn’t There_, or a neo-noir like _Kiss Kiss Bang Bang_ or _Pulp Fiction_ which depends on the conventions of the genre including characters doing anachronistic and self-destructive behaviors. To argue that this is purely due to tobacco interests or tobacco-addicted actors is silly. But yes, tobacco companies have, and in more subtle ways continue to use films and televison to generate interest for their productz, often in unexpected ways. Why Cameron elected to have Sigourney Weaver (who in real life is not a smoker despite portraying smoking in many films) light up in a laboratory is curious at best. Cameron stated tat he wanted her to portray a character who is careless of others to the point of rudeness but it still seems unnecessary and unlikely. Clint Eastwood (also a non-smoker) choking down one cancer stick after another in _True Crime_ and _Gran Torino_, on the other hand, fits the character to a T, and is a plot point in the latter. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/51 "2014-09-23T18:00:42Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Smoking by women in the 1910’s was on the cutting edge of acceptability - it was sort of like twerking is today - something that is becoming quite popular but isn’t quite what “good girls” do. Showing her twerking would have been much more enjoyable. It’s a lazy shorthand for lazy writers. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/52 "2014-09-23T19:17:56Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Still getting page not found. Just watch the movie. The relevant scene is at 17:30, after Michael Rennie gets shot: [http://www.sockshare.com/file/013FFBAB2177998B#](http://www.sockshare.com/file/013FFBAB2177998B#) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/53 "2014-09-23T21:02:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Because it’s a _aspect of the film character’s behavior_ which has been inserted artificially due to bribes from Big Tobacco, who kills 500000 people in the USA every year, including 50000 NON-smokers. That 500,000 number is a crock of shit, by the way. 500,000 smokers die each year, from all causes. If a smoker dies from getting struck by lightning, that’s counted in the 500,000. An estimated 42.1 million people smoke in the US. (18% of the adult population) Around 2.5 million people die each year What’s 18% of 2.5 million? 450,000. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/54 "2014-09-23T21:08:32Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > That 500,000 number is a crock of shit, by the way. 500,000 smokers die each year, from all causes. If a smoker dies from getting struck by lightning, that’s counted in the 500,000. > > An estimated 42.1 million people smoke in the US. (18% of the adult population) > Around 2.5 million people die each year > > What’s 18% of 2.5 million? 450,000. Nope. “ **Cigarette smoking** is responsible…” [http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data\_statistics/fact\_sheets/fast\_facts/](http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/) \*Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including an estimated 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure.1 This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.\*1 [http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/reports/50-years-of-progress/50-years-of-progress-by-section.html](http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/reports/50-years-of-progress/50-years-of-progress-by-section.html) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/55 "2014-09-23T21:12:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope. “ **Cigarette smoking** is responsible…” > [http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data\_statistics/fact\_sheets/fast\_facts/](http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/) > > \*Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including an estimated 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure.1 This is about one in five deaths annually, or 1,300 deaths every day.\*1 > > [http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/reports/50-years-of-progress/50-years-of-progress-by-section.html](http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/reports/50-years-of-progress/50-years-of-progress-by-section.html) It’s easily refuted by simple arithmetic, as demonstrated above. If smoking is responsible for 480,000/2,500,000 = 19.2% of all deaths in the US, and 18% of the US smokes, then smokers can **only die from smoking**. Don’t want to die from a drunk driver smashing into you? Start smoking! You’ve totally bought into the bogus, easily-refuted anti-smoking PR machine. Smoking is, of course, very bad for you. But the scare tactics used to lobby against it are absurd, outright lies. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/56 "2014-09-23T21:15:14Z")
Is there evidence that cigarette makers bribe movie makers to include smoking? I know this was a plot point in _Thank You for Smoking_, but is there evidence it actually occurs? ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/57 "2014-09-23T21:32:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I detest smoking in all forms in real life in but there are certainly times where it is important to the story or setting in a film, especially a period piece like _Good night and Good Luck_ or _The Man Who Wasn’t There_, or a neo-noir like _Kiss Kiss Bang Bang_ or _Pulp Fiction_ which depends on the conventions of the genre including characters doing anachronistic and self-destructive behaviors. To argue that this is purely due to tobacco interests or tobacco-addicted actors is silly. Your arguments, like most of the arguments in this thread, are valid and perfectly reasonable. My problem is that when I hear these very same arguments from people who work in film and theater, they’re almost always waving a Marlboro around and blowing smoke in your face while making those arguments. Then they’ll segue into a rant about anti-smoking laws and throw in an anecdote about their Aunt Hazel who smoked unfiltered Camels and lived to be 112. It’s very difficult for me to take claims of “historical accuracy” and “characterization” seriously when they’re coming from someone who _can’t go five fucking minutes without a cigarette_. I’ve also noticed that directors and actors have no problems letting other anachronisms slide (like all the characters with dazzlingly white teeth in historical dramas), but insist that smoking is _absolutely essential_. ---
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/58 "2014-09-23T21:39:49Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > It’s easily refuted by simple arithmetic, as demonstrated above. > > If smoking is responsible for 480,000/2,500,000 = 19.2% of all deaths in the US, and 18% of the US smokes, then smokers can **only die from smoking**. Don’t want to die from a drunk driver smashing into you? Start smoking! > > You’ve totally bought into the bogus, easily-refuted anti-smoking PR machine. Smoking is, of course, very bad for you. But the scare tactics used to lobby against it are absurd, outright lies. The absolute number of deaths is meaningless. The only statistic that matters is what are YOUR chances of dying because of smoking? For a 60-year old male smoker who’s smoked a pack a day for 40 years, Sloan Kettering puts your chance of getting lung cancer at 2%. > **[Is a Lung Screening Right for You?](https://www.mskcc.org/lung-screening)** > > See if you are eligible for a lung cancer screening with a two-minute quiz. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/59 "2014-09-23T21:41:04Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > It was one of the _Rama_ sequels. I’m not going to bother trying to figure out which one. I just checked; it’s in _The Ghost from the Grand Banks_ (1990): > [@](#): > > In the mid-90s, the movie and TV studios had suddenly realized that they were facing a crisis that no one had ever anticipated, although it should have been obvious years in advance. Many of the classics of the cinema - the capital assets of the enormous entertainment industry - were becoming worthless, because fewer and fewer people could bear to watch them. Millions of viewers would switch off in disgust at a western, a James Bond thriller, a Neil Simon comedy, a courtroom drama, for a reason which would have been inconceivable only a generation before. _They showed people smoking._ Clarke’s prediction of this happening by the “mid-90s” was obviously way off. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864/60 "2014-09-23T22:02:40Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Is there evidence that cigarette makers bribe movie makers to include smoking? I know this was a plot point in _Thank You for Smoking_, but is there evidence it actually occurs? > **[How the tobacco industry built its relationship with Hollywood](https://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/11/suppl_1/i81.long)** > > Objective: To describe the development of the relationship between the tobacco industry and the entertainment industry. > > Methods: Review of previously secret tobacco industry documents available on the internet. > > Results: Both the entertainment and... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-in-movies/698864.md?page=4)