# Smoking on the street \[cont'd\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2011, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042 "2011-02-11T06:24:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/81 "2011-02-13T08:01:02Z")
Note: For the record, I am a non-smoker. I even appreciate being able to stop off at a bar after work without smelling like an ashtray. My boyfriend, who has asthma, appreciated it even more. I am still opposed to state imposed non-smoking bans in places that people have reasonable alternatives to going to, like bars and restaurants. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/82 "2011-02-13T11:08:42Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > So why were you frequenting bars with that oppressive tobacco smell ? Did other types of bars actually exist? Because, I never noticed one. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/83 "2011-02-13T11:13:15Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Did other types of bars actually exist? Because, I never noticed one. There was a bar in my town with adequate ventilation, hardly any tobacco smell at all, even on the busiest weekends. It’s all moot now, what with the oppressive anti-smoking laws in Oregon. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/84 "2011-02-13T15:17:39Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Did other types of bars actually exist? Because, I never noticed one. So, were you FORCED to have a drink in a smoking bar? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/85 "2011-02-13T15:23:39Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > So, were you FORCED to have a drink in a smoking bar? You are absolutely right-we had the “freedom” not to go to bars, restaurants, grocery stores, nightclubs, most music venues, town hall meetings. What the hell do you mean by “smoking” bar, btw? In a lot of areas _all_ bars were smoking bars. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/86 "2011-02-13T20:03:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You are absolutely right-we had the “freedom” not to go to bars, restaurants, grocery stores, nightclubs, most music venues, town hall meetings. What the hell do you mean by “smoking” bar, btw? In a lot of areas _all_ bars were smoking bars. All but two of your examples, there is a reasonable alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/87 "2011-02-13T20:23:23Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > +1. > > And now NYC is officially off the list of locations for my honeymoon, for this reason. They’re getting as nutty as California. [Eddie Izzard] No smoking in bars, and pretty soon, no drinking and no talking. [/EI] [QUOTE=Czarcasm] You are absolutely right-we had the “freedom” not to go to bars, restaurants, grocery stores, nightclubs, most music venues, town hall meetings. What the hell do you mean by “smoking” bar, btw? In a lot of areas all bars were smoking bars. [/QUOTE] Which suggests that patrons didn’t care. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/88 "2011-02-13T20:28:26Z")
Actually, it doesn’t indicate that they didn’t care at all, just that they didn’t care enough to not go to bars. Just like how we still go to bars, even though we can’t smoke there. Of course the reasonable, sensible solution would be to let property owners decide whether they’ll allow smoking or not. Of course many people are not only not interested in, but emphatically opposed to a reasonable, sensible solution. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/89 "2011-02-13T20:28:35Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > Note: For the record, I am a non-smoker. I even appreciate being able to stop off at a bar after work without smelling like an ashtray. My boyfriend, who has asthma, appreciated it even more. > > I am still opposed to state imposed non-smoking bans in places that people have reasonable alternatives to going to, like bars and restaurants. That is the thing. Some people like Siam Sam don’t want reasonable or alternate. Period. > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Give me liberty or … > > Whatever. I just wish you young uns realize what an oppressive society we in North America have become. > > By the way, I breath in way more wood smoke from wood burning fireplaces . Someday I expect someone to start up a campaign to outlaw fireplaces. Come to California. They’re working on it - in addition to the "slippery slope gradual abolition of smoking there have been moves toward the banning of fireplaces and barbecue grills. Then of course there are also the anti alcohol and the “food police” guys. See, this is why I get so wound up about this garbage… It never stops. There is always some other no good, stinking busybody do-gooder wanting to control or ban something else. Back to Siam Sam, I saw your “handle” and location. So I figured that was that. Tell you what… if you don’t like the way things are here, then just don’t come back. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/90 "2011-02-13T21:04:31Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Actually, it doesn’t indicate that they didn’t care at all, just that they didn’t care enough to not go to bars. Just like how we still go to bars, even though we can’t smoke there. > > Of course the reasonable, sensible solution would be to let property owners decide whether they’ll allow smoking or not. Of course many people are not only not interested in, but emphatically opposed to a reasonable, sensible solution. It shows that they didn’t care enough to patronize non-smoking bars instead. Surely, if people did care at all, smoke-free bars would have made a killing. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/91 "2011-02-13T21:30:07Z")
I don’t know how it was in other places, but in Boston there really weren’t any non-smoking bars until they were ALL non-smoking bars. Thing is, now that it’s abundantly evident that there is in fact a market for both, why not let property owners decide? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/92 "2011-02-13T21:40:15Z")
Sure, just like we allow owners to decide for themselves whether they want to run a joint _with_ or _without_ barbecue sandwiches, sports on TV, blues music, or naked girls dancing–and folks to decide to patronize these places, or not, depending on whether they want those things. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/93 "2011-02-13T21:41:55Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Give me liberty or … > > Whatever. I just wish you young uns realize what an oppressive society we in North America have become. > > By the way, I breath in way more wood smoke from wood burning fireplaces . Someday I expect someone to start up a campaign to outlaw fireplaces. Cause not allowing smoking is way worse than Jim Crow, red-lining, requiring women to have their husbands signatures on loans, police beating up gays, McCarthy, and Japanese internment. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/94 "2011-02-13T22:25:12Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > I don’t know how it was in other places, but in Boston there really weren’t any non-smoking bars until they were ALL non-smoking bars. Thing is, now that it’s abundantly evident that there is in fact a market for both, why not let property owners decide? Well, they were allowed to do that before. So “letting property owners decide” just means “going back to the way things were”. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/95 "2011-02-13T22:29:56Z")
I disagree. Bar owners’ argument before smoking bans was that going smoke-free would cost them money, and I’m certain that actually believed it. But it hasn’t. There is very clearly a market for non-smoking bars, so there’s no reason to believe that all bar owners would revert to allowing smoking. ETA that I just realized that what you meant by “going back to the way things were” wasn’t “all bars would be smoking” but simply “they used to have the option”. In which case, “going back to the way things were” would be a good thing, I think we agree. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/96 "2011-02-13T23:05:31Z")
Well, that’s settled, then. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JayRx1981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@JayRx1981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayRx1981)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/97 "2011-02-14T03:01:51Z")
> [@Cort](#): > > Was there a referendum on the subject? Effectively, what you did was no different from demanding your neighbour get rid of his pets just because you happen to be allergic to them. The unspoken and unjustified assumption, that you somehow had some sort of _right_ to be there and that your claim over his property (towards which you had contributed nothing) overrode his right to run his household the way he saw fit, somehow managed to slip through the net. Well, in Ohio, at least, there WAS a state-wide referendum on the issue of smoking in bars and restaurants. And the ban passed. So here, at least, the smoking ban really was passed by a democratic majority of Ohio’s voting population. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/98 "2011-02-14T03:30:29Z")
> [@JayRx1981](#): > > Well, in Ohio, at least, there WAS a state-wide referendum on the issue of smoking in bars and restaurants. And the ban passed. So here, at least, the smoking ban really was passed by a democratic majority of Ohio’s voting population. Not only that, there was a simultaneous referendum on the statewide ballot (pushed by pro-smoking factions) designed to confuse matters - it would instead have implemented much weaker smoking restrictions. Voters saw through that one and voted it down. Democracy in action can be a beautiful thing. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/99 "2011-02-14T03:31:55Z")
I don’t smoke cigarettes, and I don’t even much care for them, but this is bullshit. I really hope the smokers of NYC organize a big smoke rally in Central Park. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042/100 "2011-02-14T03:40:24Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > > [@JayRx1981](#): > > > > Well, in Ohio, at least, there WAS a state-wide referendum on the issue of smoking in bars and restaurants. And the ban passed. So here, at least, the smoking ban really was passed by a democratic majority of Ohio’s voting population. > > Not only that, there was a simultaneous referendum on the statewide ballot (pushed by pro-smoking factions) designed to confuse matters - it would instead have implemented much weaker smoking restrictions. Voters saw through that one and voted it down. > > Democracy in action can be a beautiful thing. So, anything that a majority votes to ban should be banned? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-on-the-street-contd/571042.md?page=6)