Smoking on the street [cont'd]

[grey_ideas]

@Kimstu

Once again: the central point here is that it’s the responsibility of smokers to KEEP THEIR SMOKE TO THEMSELVES.

I know this one gets brought up all the time in this argument but do you feel the same about car owners?

@Czarcasm

Are you denying that it is a drug addiction?

I don’t drink but I think I’m pretty accommodating to those, I assume you won’t mind me calling people who do drink ‘drug addicts’, that do drink.

I think there is a lot of behaviour that we will put up with since it’s more socially accepted than smoking is currently. If I take the example of drinking, there are many deaths each year directly attributable to drinking (excluding the person actually partaking in the drinking) but does that mean we should ban it entirely or limit drinking to only in private houses? Even though it wouldn’t affect me at all, I’d still say that was bloody stupid. A slightly increased risk for me (that some twit might be driving around after having had a drink) doesn’t necessitate having to stop everyone drinking. Similarly, whilst I support the ban on smoking indoors, I think that banning smoking outside is daft.

[Czarcasm]

@grey_ideas

I don’t drink but I think I’m pretty accommodating to those, I assume you won’t mind me calling people who do drink ‘drug addicts’, that do drink.

I think there is a lot of behaviour that we will put up with since it’s more socially accepted than smoking is currently.

1. The vast majority of people that drink are not drug addicts-the vast majority of smokers are.
2. There are untold numbers of behaviours that can annoy people, but I wasn’t talking about annoying behaviours, but drug addictions and the people that accommodate them.

[grey_ideas]

@Czarcasm

1. The vast majority of people that drink are not drug addicts-the vast majority of smokers are.
2. There are untold numbers of behaviours that can annoy people, but I wasn’t talking about annoying behaviours, but drug addictions and the people that accommodate them.

Not drinking I don’t know how to decide how addicted one is to alcohol or not, what in this case do you mean by addiction? Do we use withdrawal symptoms as a level of addiction? In that case my coffee drinking is definitely an addiction based on those lovely headaches I get when I stop drinking it for a good while. My point is that there are drug addictions that are accepted since they are socially acceptable and others, that were socially acceptable but no longer are due to changes in norms.
…on a completely unrelated not and due to a slightly weird fingers-deciding-to-hit-whatever-keys-they-want issue, I just found out that AltGr + I gives you the italic code, something new everyday

[Czarcasm]

@grey_ideas

Not drinking I don’t know how to decide how addicted one is to alcohol or not, what in this case do you mean by addiction? Do we use withdrawal symptoms as a level of addiction? In that case my coffee drinking is definitely an addiction based on those lovely headaches I get when I stop drinking it for a good while. My point is that there are drug addictions that are accepted since they are socially acceptable and others, that were socially acceptable but no longer are due to changes in norms.
…on a completely unrelated not and due to a slightly weird fingers-deciding-to-hit-whatever-keys-they-want issue, I just found out that AltGr + I gives you the italic code, something new everyday

Are we talking about drug addictions that are socially acceptable, or ones that are legal? I am talking about drug addictions that are legal, and you seem to be trying to broaden the subject to unpleasant behaviours that are socially acceptable, which wasn’t what I brought up at all. Again I ask(with a bit of clarification, and hopefully a bit less wiggle room), are you as accommodating with all other drug addictions that are currently legal?

[grey_ideas]

@Czarcasm

Are we talking about drug addictions that are socially acceptable, or ones that are legal? I am talking about drug addictions that are legal, and you seem to be trying to broaden the subject to unpleasant behaviours that are socially acceptable, which wasn’t what I brought up at all. Again I ask(with a bit of clarification, and hopefully a bit less wiggle room), are you as accommodating with all other drug addictions that are currently legal?

Perhaps we need a list to clear up what we’re talking about and remove the ambiguity, so for drug addictions that are legal:

1. Nicotine
2. Alcohol
3. Caffeine
4. Prescription drugs?
5. ?

From these, I would certainly like to think I was as accommodating to any one of these as I was to the other. I wasn’t trying to broaden out the definition to unpleasant behaviours, just that I see alcohol as a drug as well and one that can cause as many (more?) problems than smoking to people not actively involved in the behaviour itself.

[Czarcasm]

5. Here is a site advocating a couple dozen legal drugs-I bet I could find more.

[Czarcasm]

@grey_ideas

Perhaps we need a list to clear up what we’re talking about and remove the ambiguity, so for drug addictions that are legal:

1. Nicotine
2. Alcohol
3. Caffeine
4. Prescription drugs?
5. ?

Of the scant four you listed, which is the most addictive?

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

The question mark.

[grey_ideas]

@Czarcasm

Of the scant four you listed, which is the most addictive?

Don’t really need me to answer that one do you?

Since you admonished me for straying from the point, what you asked was:

@Czarcasm

are you as accommodating with all other drug addictions that are currently legal?

To which I answered, for the list I could think of, that I was. After that you’ve come up with a list of other legal high’s. Although I’m really not certain where this is going to be honest, perhaps you could explain the point? Since I waded into a half open discussion I may have missed something here.

What one of my original points was…

@grey_ideas

My point is that there are drug addictions that are accepted since they are socially acceptable and others, that were socially acceptable but no longer are due to changes in norms.

Hence my referring to alcohol, my question was, is this just a case of what is socially acceptable now or not? Whilst I have no issue at all with banning smoking in enclosed space (I certainly don’t want to be exposed to that high a level of smoke) what is the rational behind banning it in open spaces? Or is it just that it’s the easy target to go for? If we look at alcohol and all the direct and indirect damage that can cause, why are we not applying stricter controls to that?

Just for the record, I have no issues with people drinking at all, I just find it amusing that as many arguments used against smoking in open spaces could also be applied to drinking in general.

[Siam_Sam]

At least there has been some medical benefit detected from moderate alcohol intake. Medical benefit of nicotine: Zero, to say the least.

[Frank]

@Siam_Sam

Medical benefit of nicotine: Zero, to say the least.

Untrue. Nicotine has been demonstrated to help both concentration and relaxation. Smokers learn to self-medicate the length/strength of the draw according to the desired affect. Smoking tobacco has long-term deletrious effects, but there is a reason that smokers are addicted, and that reason is that nicotine is beneficial to them.

I’ve decided that the next time I manage to quit smoking, I will remain on nicotine patches for the rest of my life.

[Saintly_Loser]

@E-Sabbath

No, the reasoning is that Bloomberg has reached NY Mayor Stage 3: My Whims Are As The LORD Thy God!

Happens to any of 'em who stick around too long. Part of the reason we have term limits.

Which Bloomberg seems to have weaseled his way around pretty handily.

[sinjin]

@norinew

I am a non-smoker. I’ve always been a non-smoker. I’m not in favor of smoking as a habit, and really don’t like when smokers flick their cigarette butts on the ground as if those butts were not litter.

Having said all this, this latest enactment by NYC is just stoopid. When I’m in a restaurant or bar, yeah, I have the right (imho) not to be inundated by second-hand smoke (I was fine with smoking sections and non-smoking sections, fwiw). But if I’m in the park, on the beach, or in Times Square, if your smoking is bothering me, I have the freedom to either ask you politely if you would consider putting out your cigarette for the moment (they really do bother my allergies), or to move away from where you are.

I’m all in favor of prosecuting people who nonchalantly toss their butts as any other litterer. But banning smoking in open-air, well-ventilated outdoor spaces? Dumb.

This.