# smoking outdoors banned **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 30, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588 "2011-08-30T03:48:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bri2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/48db29/32.png) [@Bri2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bri2k)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/41 "2011-08-30T23:40:06Z")
The posts about bars, etc. going non-smoking are very interesting. They did the same thing here in my town, yet when they approved casino gambling here, they allowed smoking in the casinos. Why? Because the casinos said banning smoking would hurt business. Different rules for different folks, apparently. By the way, I eat out a lot less now than I did before restaurants got rid of their smoking sections. Granted, I didn’t cause a fuss, but I imagine in this horrible economy, even my money is missed. Bri2k P.S. I only take my allotted breaks at work and dispose of my cigarette butts appropriately. One of my pet peeves is fellow smokers who litter even when receptacles are available. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/42 "2011-08-30T23:46:53Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Michigan enacted a smoking ban in bars restaurants and most other businesses last April and it’s been [very bad for most businesses](http://www.davehitt.com/facts/badforbiz/). Do you have cites for what happened in LA after the smoking ban? Nope. It was over twenty years ago. I doubt that you’d find very many people in California, smokers included, who would go back to the old way. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > In that article I see evidence of correlation but not of causation. How do they know the decline in business isn’t just due to the worsening economy? Exactly. In order to prove your point, you’d have to show that business went up in neighboring jurisdictions. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/43 "2011-08-30T23:51:26Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > It’s not a question of which is worse, smoke or exhaust. It’s a question of which one will trigger a response. You clearly have a severe medical condition and obviously cannot depend on the air quality outside. Do you wear a mask when traversing out of doors? I cannot imagine why you wouldn’t. I’m being a little snarky, here. But seriously, if you have such severe asthma that you are triggered into a life-threatening illness by a nearby smoker or car exhaust passing by, it’s your responsibility to take care of yourself. The vast, vast majority of nonsmokers are merely inconvenienced by or dislike the smell of cigarette smoke. Why should we legislate air quality based on allergic reactions of a tiny minority of people who have conditions like yours, when exposure to it is easily controlled by a portable mask or ventilator? Do you get my point here? It’s not fair to demand change in the habits of everyone around you because of YOUR medical condition. It’s YOUR condition, so YOU should be dealing with the consequences of it. Reasonable accommodation is one thing. Banning everyone from smoking outdoors on 60 acres of property is not reasonable by any stretch of the imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/44 "2011-08-31T00:19:50Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How do you feel about restaurants that serve salmonella contaminated food? Still up to the customers? There’s a big difference though. You can ingest enough salmonella to put you in the hospital without knowing it. The same can’t be said for smoking. It’s not that hard to walk into a restaurant, smell the smoke and decide to find a new place that doesn’t allow smoking. Also, cigarette smoke (for the vast majority of people) won’t make them sick from one ‘dose’ whereas salmonella will. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/45 "2011-08-31T00:22:03Z")
> [@GythaOgg](#): > > …This company also has a weird obsession with coffee machines on the property for some reason. You can bring in your own coffee, you can buy it in the cafeteria, you can make instant, but they do not allow coffee machines of any type on their properties. No one seems to know why, either. Weird. > [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > An actuary knows why. A “bring-your-own” coffee maker means your employees are going to be regularly handling twelve cups of 170º fluid in a glass carafe which isn’t part of a regular maintenance/replacement program, and without any safety training. Suppose it’s heated dry one day and someone just shrugs and turns it off without properly disposing of the carafe? Next employee comes along the next day and makes a fresh pot with no idea the carafe has lost its temper, and when they pick it up, the weight of the pot exerts enough pressure on the handle for the pot to crack in half, delivering an aromatic and refreshing scalding injury. > > Company’s now on the hook for permitting an unsafe condition. That explantion works. I was going to suggest the company has a contract with an outside caterer to the the cafeteria that gives them the exclusive right to brew coffee on premise. Or even if the cafeterias are managed in-house they might have an agreement with a given supplier to only serve brand X coffee. > [@BlankSlate](#): > > Mommy Bloomberg banned smoking in parks and beaches in NYC, which makes sense in the summer because they are so crowded but in winter it’s going to seem rather stupid. > > If we weren’t so addicted to the tax revenue I’d advocate just banning the damn weed already. Yes, because that’s worked out so very well with actual weed or any other drug. :rolleyes: We tried it in the past with alcohol (which had far more social acceptance in 1919 than tobacco does today), that and failed miserably. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/46 "2011-08-31T00:32:44Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > HeLLLLLLllllLLLLlllLlllllLLL yes! In all (that is to say, every one) of the places I have worked. The current state, after a _prolonged war_ against workplace smoking, is that smokers get as many breaks as they feel they need. > > Nonsmokers get the two 15-minute breaks unless the boss thinks something important is happening, but if they _take_ them regularly, they’re seen as making a pissy little point about the smokers and thus not counted as team players. And sometimes they spend their breaks covering for the smokers. Hmm. Sounds like it’s the bosses that are the problem here, not the smokers. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/47 "2011-08-31T00:42:29Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > However, this namby-pamby “oh, but you’re polluting my precious snowflake of a lung” is pure pablum. Yes, Virginia, there is such a thing as second hand smoke, but No, Virginia, you’re not being harmed in any material way by smelling some guy’s lit cigarette as you walk into the building. Get over yourself and quit faking outrage. Or, realize that you’re outrage is built of smoke and mirrors and is just an excuse to pretend to have something real to complain about. Panzy. I’d just like to point out that, while I know I’m atypical, I am violently allergic to tobacco smoke. So much so that even being near someone who does smoke but isn’t smoking - smelling their clothes and breath - is enough to make my whole sinuses swell shut and my asthma start to act up. Being around people who are actively smoking pretty much guarantees me an asthma attack. I’m sure I’m not the only one. Do I think that the laws should revolve around my lungs? No, of course not. But I’d just like to point out that not everyone pointing out their precious snowflake of a lung is being polluted is overreacting. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/48 "2011-08-31T01:34:13Z")
[quote=“gone2thedogs, post:1, topic:594588”] > [@](#): > > How is it legal for an employer, or the state of NY, etc. to ban smoking outdoors? When did the employer/state own all the air outside? The golden rule, those with the gold make the rules > [@](#): > > Particularly where I work smokers will be banned on campus soon. Due to health issues, in a 60 acre site? I think not. They are not making me stand in their air, or even nearby. As a smoker, I might or might not adhere to what ever rule they come up with, it depends on the situation. Some might have the force of law behind them, and others like a hospital may simply be making a gesture, but dont have the force of law to actually physically ban smoking outside. Obviously this will be a milage may vary depending on jurisdiction. [QUOTE] Yet, the obese people on the same site are offered motorized scooters to manuver around the place. I can guarantee that the obese people lose 10 times the amount of work time than the smokers. I don’t mean to criticize those that are obese, but why is one group of “outcasts” treated so differently than another? [QUOTE] Personally, i never did get the fat people thing, given my druthers I would simply let peoples bygones be bygones, its not going to change anything with regards to smoking and I rather not have some other group demonized, just because they dont meet up with some perfect notion. > [@](#): > > As a reformed smoker I still feel the inequity in this situation. Resistance begins with a simple step, simply ignore people that are smoking in non designated areas and dont make the smoke nazis jobs easier. You cant get the law unpassed at this time, but you can help make it ineffective. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/49 "2011-08-31T02:34:50Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Good point. Enforcing the littering laws would have been a great start. God knows it’s not just the smokers. Where I am from, businesses don’t enforce even the little nuisance laws. Since having businesses either call the police or dedicate people to watching over smokers’ litter seems like a waste of time, it doesn’t seem extraordinarily strange to ban the activity resulting in the litter. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/50 "2011-08-31T02:48:24Z")
Here there are many many places that are non smoking - Uni campuses, hospitals, govt complexes, and more. The whole site you cannot smoke. And damn good thing too. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/51 "2011-08-31T03:07:39Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > I’d just like to point out that, while I know I’m atypical, I am violently allergic to tobacco smoke. So much so that even being near someone who does smoke but isn’t smoking - smelling their clothes and breath - is enough to make my whole sinuses swell shut and my asthma start to act up. Being around people who are actively smoking pretty much guarantees me an asthma attack. > > I’m sure I’m not the only one. Do I think that the laws should revolve around my lungs? No, of course not. But I’d just like to point out that not everyone pointing out their precious snowflake of a lung is being polluted is overreacting. > **[Amazon.com: Respro Allergy Face Mask : Health & Household](https://www.amazon.com/Respro-Allergy-Face-Mask/dp/B000U8FFT8)** > > Respro Allergy Face Mask ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/52 "2011-08-31T03:41:11Z")
> [@Bri2k](#): > > The posts about bars, etc. going non-smoking are very interesting. They did the same thing here in my town, yet when they approved casino gambling here, they allowed smoking in the casinos. Why? Because the casinos said banning smoking would hurt business. > > Different rules for different folks, apparently. > > By the way, I eat out a lot less now than I did before restaurants got rid of their smoking sections. Granted, I didn’t cause a fuss, but I imagine in this horrible economy, even my money is missed. > > Bri2k > > P.S. I only take my allotted breaks at work and dispose of my cigarette butts appropriately. One of my pet peeves is fellow smokers who litter even when receptacles are available. Well, around here casinos are all “on reservation” and since tribes are sovereign nations, they get to pass their own laws and are not necessarily bound by a local smoking law. So yes, different rules for different folks, but in the case of American Indian tribes and their sovereign nation status, its a little bigger issue than smoking laws. ---
**Author:** ![Feyrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/fbc32d/32.png) [@Feyrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feyrat)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/53 "2011-08-31T04:06:58Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > [Amazon.com](http://www.amazon.com/Respro-Allergy-Face-Mask/dp/B000U8FFT8) Um, seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/54 "2011-08-31T06:52:02Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > Um, seriously? Honestly, if your reaction is that violent it’s probably more reasonable for you to take precautions like that on your end than to expect the entire world to cater to your rare allergy. And I say this as someone who is generally pretty anti-smoking, and also recognize the multiple other problems associated with secondhand smoke. But if so much as a whiff of the smell sends you into a terrible fit, come on. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/55 "2011-08-31T10:17:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m a smoker and anecdotally: I used to meet up with a group of people on Sundays (about half of us smoke) at a local restaurant…we haven’t patronised that or any other restaurant on a regular basis since. Also anecdotally: a friend in a neighboring county went regularly to a little Greek restaurant - sometimes I went with her - they closed last fall saying the smoking ban was the death knell on top of a terrible SE Michigan economy. And also anecdotally…as a nonsmoker, I’m more likely to go out to various restaurants since the clean air laws have been enacted. It used to be that restaurants would have nonsmoking and smoking tables right next to one another, so that sitting in a nonsmoking area was just about as bad as sitting at a smoking area. Now, a lot of restaurants have gone totally nonsmoking. Yes, some restaurants have closed…but I imagine that this is more because fewer people have disposable income these days, and one of the first things that people cut back on is eating out. The thing is, smokers can refrain from smoking for an hour or two, in most cases. However, nonsmokers can’t refrain from breathing for more than a few minutes. Breathing is necessary, smoking isn’t. And if smokers really need that nicotine fix, they don’t have to smoke, they can always dip, which is nasty in its own way, but it generally doesn’t harm others, other than grossing them out. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/56 "2011-08-31T10:18:31Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Honestly, if your reaction is that violent it’s probably more reasonable for you to take precautions like that on your end than to expect the entire world to cater to your rare allergy. And I say this as someone who is generally pretty anti-smoking, and also recognize the multiple other problems associated with secondhand smoke. But if so much as a whiff of the smell sends you into a terrible fit, come on. Or maybe we just expect people to obey the nonsmoking signs and laws. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/57 "2011-08-31T11:03:28Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Or maybe we just expect people to obey the nonsmoking signs and laws. And sometimes we expect people to have real immune systems and not to need too live in a sterile bubble ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/58 "2011-08-31T11:36:13Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > A fat person on a scooter is not polluting anyone else’s air. Well they _could_ be, but if anything sitting on a scooter makes it more difficult to accomplish. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/59 "2011-08-31T11:59:37Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > And sometimes we expect people to have real immune systems and not to need too live in a sterile bubble I don’t need to live in a sterile bubble. I just need people to obey the No Smoking signs. See, the thing is, if I know an area is a smoking area, then I don’t go near it. I’ve passed on a lot of concerts and other events because I called the venue and learned that smoking was allowed in the area. If it was just me that had to be so careful, then yeah, I’d get some estimates about bubbles. But it’s not just me. There are plenty of people who have reactions to cigarette smoke. Some have mild reactions, some have severe reactions. Generally I won’t need a trip to the ER, because I can usually smell the smoke and get away from it. In the instance I was talking about, I couldn’t smell it, I only reacted to it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588/60 "2011-08-31T12:14:02Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > The vast, vast majority of nonsmokers are merely inconvenienced by or dislike the smell of cigarette smoke. Why should we legislate air quality based on allergic reactions of a tiny minority of people who have conditions like yours, when exposure to it is easily controlled by a portable mask or ventilator? Speaking as someone whose spouse has had asthmatic attacks triggered by cigarette smoke, I suggest that it’s the public smokers that need to walk around in a contraption that obliges them to rebreathe their own fouled air, rather than expecting others to wear masks and ventilators. Businesses and universities are deciding on complete outdoor/campus-wide smoking bans to lower smoking-related health costs, increase worker productivity, reduce littering and protect non-smokers in situations where heavy concentrations of secondhand smoke pose health risks (i.e. at building entrances). I may not agree with bans in all of these situations, but many seem justifiable. If outright Prohibition worked, we’d still be a “dry” nation, but making tobacco products illegal is not a viable option. After all the years of smokers ignoring the comfort of others and lighting up wherever they damn well pleased, it’s interesting to hear them whining now about their rights being trampled. Want to mobilize support for smokers’ rights? Have at it - but you’ll need to recruit more foot soldiers (gaps seem to have developed in the ranks). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smoking-outdoors-banned/594588.md?page=4)