# Smooth Criminal is the greatest video ever! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 18, 2007, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140 "2007-10-18T04:43:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Monstera\_deliciosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monstera_deliciosa/32/109_2.png) [@Monstera\_deliciosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstera_deliciosa)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/21 "2007-10-18T23:19:36Z")
[QUOTE=Beaucarnea] From 2005 HipHop Honors [tribute to Big Daddy Kane](http://www.vh1.com/vspot/player.jhtml?id=1510340&vid=61896&launchedFrom=/search/search.jhtml). If you like old school, rap, or dance- watch this. I’ve never seen such feedback and energy between performers and audience. The drummer is a genius and feeds the whole show, and Big Daddy Kane’s big finish is unbeatable. (and you know his grandkids are in the audience rockin out to grandpop’s performance)I can’t link directly to the video, but scroll down and select “Big Daddy Kane tribute with T.I., Common, etc” [/QUOTE] Thanks for posting that. I loved me some Big Daddy Kane back in the day. But _grandpop_?! Kane was only 37 in 2005. (I know that is not technically too young to be a grandfather, but still!) ---
**Author:** ![Beaucarnea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@Beaucarnea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beaucarnea)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/22 "2007-10-18T23:43:50Z")
[QUOTE=KayElCee] Thanks for posting that. I loved me some Big Daddy Kane back in the day. But _grandpop_?! Kane was only 37 in 2005. (I know that is not technically too young to be a grandfather, but still!) [/QUOTE] Sigh… yeah, we’re old. (especially me: I started with the Sugar Hill Gang) But we can still bust a move! Didn’t you just love the energy from the crowd in that video? I’m going to go find some Digital Underground now and reminisce. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/23 "2007-10-19T04:40:07Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima] Last year when I stumbled across the patent for his shoes that allowed him to do the leany thing. . .I lost my childhood. It was sad. [/QUOTE] Dammit, dammit, _dammit!_ [QUOTE=Beaucarnea] The drummer is a genius and feeds the whole show [/QUOTE] Oh yes! That is Questlove from the Roots. I saw them perform live at a college about 7 years ago, and it is one of my top 5 concerts of all time! And coming from a girl that has been to every FreshFest to ever grace New York State, that is really saying something. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/24 "2007-10-19T06:12:51Z")
It really is amazing how much Michael Jackson music is in my head, beyond just Thriller. I didn’t even know I knew some of his songs. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/25 "2007-10-19T09:03:11Z")
I’m partial to this [Liz Phair](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4QiSL4V0sE) video of “Why Can’t I Breathe”. If you think it’s an innocent pop song, er, well, it’s Liz Phair. Listen closely… ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/26 "2007-10-19T13:06:45Z")
[QUOTE=Flander] There is not a dance video that touches Smooth Criminal. Dopers, you got anything better? [/QUOTE] Try watching some of the online footage of a certain Mr. Fred Astaire’s dance routines from his films. Not only is he a far better dancer than MJ ever was, but note that Astaire’s routines are generally shot in long, continuous takes, whereas MJ videos involve very frequent cuts (hint: rapid editing makes it easier to look good, long takes are harder to get right). Oh, and Astaire was dancing well into his 50s and possibly 60s. Of course, you could say none of the Astaire clips constitutes a ‘dance video’ as such, and I suppose this is true. Nonetheless, Astaire is by far the better dancer. Also, you may want to track down some footage of Harold and Fayard Nicholas, aka ‘the Nicholas Brothers’, whose incredible athleticism and ‘stunt’ dancing moves will surpass your understandng of what it’s possible for the human body to do. As with Astaire, they generally performed their routines for the camera in long, continuous takes. And just in case you care to know, it’s ‘as well as he does’, not ‘as good as he does’. ---
**Author:** ![Beaucarnea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@Beaucarnea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beaucarnea)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/27 "2007-10-19T15:26:32Z")
[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated] Oh yes! That is Questlove from the Roots. I saw them perform live at a college about 7 years ago, and it is one of my top 5 concerts of all time! And coming from a girl that has been to every FreshFest to ever grace New York State, that is really saying something. [/QUOTE] **Nzinga** , after I saw HipHop honors a couple years ago, I tracked down Questlove and browsed music from The Roots but didn’t find anything that compares to his performance in that show. Can you recommend a few songs? (And I was burning with jealousy when I read that you had been in a audience like that- I’ve been to 50+ concerts and 100+ live small venue shows, and I’ve never experienced anything near that kind of fun and synergy) ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/28 "2007-10-19T16:16:59Z")
[QUOTE=ianzin] Try watching some of the online footage of a certain Mr. Fred Astaire’s dance routines from his films..[snip]..Also, you may want to track down some footage of Harold and Fayard Nicholas, aka ‘the Nicholas Brothers’, whose incredible athleticism and ‘stunt’ dancing moves will surpass your understandng of what it’s possible for the human body to do. [/quote] I’ll check that stuff out when I get home. The office computer has its limits. > [@](#): > > And just in case you care to know, it’s ‘as well as he does’, not ‘as good as he does’. It was late. I was drunk. Give a guy a break! Besides, you’ve been using apostrophes where you should be using quotation marks and you misspelled “understanding”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/29 "2007-10-19T16:23:48Z")
Astair’s a better dancer than MJ because Astaire was a dancer, whereas MJ was as pop star who could mimic dance moves. If you watch enough MJ videos, you’ll see he is never choreographed doing any moves that any reasonably flexible person with a sense of timing couldn’t do. Much of the choreography is the same from one video to the next, and he has a handful of signature MJ moves. He just looks good doing them. I loves me a good MJ video because he’s engaging and is fun to watch, but very little of it is very challenging as far as dancing goes. ---
**Author:** ![susan\_foster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@susan\_foster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan_foster)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/30 "2007-10-19T16:33:15Z")
Personally, I’ve always had a weakness for You Might Think by The Cars. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8oZZJojROo](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8oZZJojROo) Susan ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/31 "2007-10-19T16:36:07Z")
WRT dancing, I’m a Gene Kelly man. His dancing perhaps lacked the effortless-looking grace that Astaire displayed, but he more than made up for it with a testosterone-rich athleticism that Astaire never had. MJ isn’t fit to powder either man’s sweaty dance shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/32 "2007-10-19T16:42:42Z")
[QUOTE=ianzin] Try watching some of the online footage of a certain Mr. Fred Astaire’s dance routines from his films. Not only is he a far better dancer than MJ ever was, but note that Astaire’s routines are generally shot in long, continuous takes, whereas MJ videos involve very frequent cuts . [/QUOTE] I will give you the Nicholas Brothers, but not Astaire. I have seen his moves, and while he is damn impressive, he is certainly missing that _something_…what is it…what _is_ it called…Oh yeah. _Soul_. **Beaucarnea** , re: The Roots. I recommend “Do You Want More” and “The Tipping Point” for a couple of great albums. But they had a song called “You Got Me”. It was a kind of popular on R&B stations, and featured Erykah Badu. The thing about that song is that originally Jill Scott sang on it; not Badu. After the lyrics have ended on the Jill Scott version, and the band gets a chance to jam a little, Questlove really does his stuff. It is not a really _hype_ drumming…it is just…soulful and _nice._ ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/33 "2007-10-19T19:30:10Z")
“Smooth Criminal” is certainly a better video than the various emo-grown-men-pretending-to-be-high-school-student band videos out there today, but I wouldn’t even say it’s Michael Jackson’s third best video, much less the best ever. While it’s very good, it begins to implement many of the elements that made much of his later stuff suck: 1. It’s got unnecessary kids in it. 2. It’s not his best vocal performance, by a long shot - in fact, by Jackson’s own standards, it’s poor. 3. The extended version of the video, while it has a lot of cool visual elements, screws up the pacing of the song. 4. It’s got elements of generally pointless weirdness in it. His best work - by a mile, IMHO - is “Beat It.” ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/34 "2007-10-19T19:39:51Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] His best work - by a mile, IMHO - is “Beat It.” [/QUOTE] Knife fighting and a ridiculous guitar solo…good video indeed. I do thing it’s a better _song_, but the video isn’t as stylish, IMHO. To each his own. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/35 "2007-10-19T20:12:21Z")
[QUOTE=Scumpup] Nope. [_This_](http://www.archive.org/details/SoundieF) is the greatest music video ever. [/QUOTE] I laughed and laughed and laughed. Thanks you, **Scumpup**!! ---
**Author:** ![Beaucarnea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@Beaucarnea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beaucarnea)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/36 "2007-10-19T22:23:59Z")
[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated] I will give you the Nicholas Brothers, but not Astaire. I have seen his moves, and while he is damn impressive, he is certainly missing that _something_…what is it…what _is_ it called…Oh yeah. _Soul_. **Beaucarnea** , re: The Roots. I recommend “Do You Want More” and “The Tipping Point” for a couple of great albums. But they had a song called “You Got Me”. It was a kind of popular on R&B stations, and featured Erykah Badu. The thing about that song is that originally Jill Scott sang on it; not Badu. After the lyrics have ended on the Jill Scott version, and the band gets a chance to jam a little, Questlove really does his stuff. It is not a really _hype_ drumming…it is just…soulful and _nice._ [/QUOTE] Thank you, **Nzinga** - I just bought The Tipping Point- love it. Does put you in a nice place- yeah. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/37 "2007-10-20T01:23:06Z")
Michael Jackson is the reason no one wears fedoras anymore. It’s a good video, but Billie Jean and Thriller are better. The idea of MJ as a tough guy _of any kind_ is just a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/38 "2007-10-20T01:38:43Z")
[QUOTE=Scumpup] WRT dancing, I’m a Gene Kelly man. His dancing perhaps lacked the effortless-looking grace that Astaire displayed, but he more than made up for it with a testosterone-rich athleticism that Astaire never had. MJ isn’t fit to powder either man’s sweaty dance shoes. [/QUOTE] Amen. Kelly even classed up the joint in _Xanadu_. Check out **That’s Dancing!** for some really great stuff. Granted, Bob Fosse will always be first in my heart… ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/39 "2007-10-20T04:26:49Z")
Personally, as far as dancing goes, my favorite videos are [Days Go By](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oqmhVNk3Hg) by Dirty Vegas and [Weapon of Choice](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WW8flwpH-Q) by Fatboy Slim. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2007, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140/40 "2007-10-20T07:36:16Z")
[Can you feel it?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaADnQzdyP8) How did they do that video in '80- '81? That’s some advanced shit!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/smooth-criminal-is-the-greatest-video-ever/423140.md?page=3)