# Snake in a tree ID? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 3, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196 "2011-06-03T14:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/1 "2011-06-03T14:48:17Z")
Kayaking at a local lake (western Pennsylvania) I saw a snake in a tree. Tried to get a picture with my phone, which involved wedging my boat in among the branches. Yikes. [Here is the picture I managed to get.](http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/vv174/kayaker01/snakesex.jpg) I then scurried away.šŸ˜ƒ Looked like there were two snakes. Any idea on species? And is their activity of a sexual nature? Thanksā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/2 "2011-06-03T14:56:20Z")
Iā€™m pretty sure that they are [northern water snakes](http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dnorthern%2Bwater%2Bsnake&w=160&h=127&imgurl=www.bing.com%2Fimages%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dnorthern%2Bwater%2Bsnake%23focal%3D09a000c7ed51befc783552019fd472e6%26furl%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fi.pbase.com%252fo4%252f34%252f564334%252f1%252f63955873.cG5ELugZ.20060722snake01.jpg&size=&name=search&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fimages%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dnorthern%2Bwater%2Bsnake%23focal%3D09a000c7ed51befc783552019fd472e6%26furl%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fi.pbase.com%252fo4%252f34%252f564334%252f1%252f63955873.cG5ELugZ.20060722snake01.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fimages%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dnorthern%2Bwater%2Bsnake%23focal%3D09a000c7ed51befc783552019fd472e6%26furl%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fi.pbase.com%252fo4%252f34%252f564334%252f1%252f63955873.cG5ELugZ.20060722snake01.jpg&p=northern+water+snake&type=&no=1&tt=114&oid=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fimages%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D973045708301%26id%3D1298b7711cdd23221b8c49de157bdb7c&tit=Sayer+%7C+all+galleries+%26gt%3B%26gt%3B+Favorites+-+2006+%26gt%3B+Northern+Water+Snake&sigr=15sk3a7r8&sigi=15l5b4m8j&sigb=11u35cgjb&fr=my-myy-s#FCar=0fb087f1c5c99cc005f601779f3b973b), and they appear to be getting ready to mate. ETA: the snake whose thickest part is the farthest right appears to be distended, as though it just ate or is already gravid. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/3 "2011-06-03T15:01:35Z")
Looks like it might be a [black rat snake](http://www.google.com/search?q=black+rat+snake&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&rlz=1I7ADSA_en&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=CPboTfbkLMbl0QH_zdSyAQ&ved=0CDkQsAQ&biw=1003&bih=592) - theyā€™re excellent climbers and are often found in trees. ETA: Or maybe northern water snakes. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/4 "2011-06-03T15:13:48Z")
Cool! ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/5 "2011-06-03T15:16:14Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Looks like it might be a [black rat snake](http://www.google.com/search?q=black+rat+snake&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&rlz=1I7ADSA_en&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=CPboTfbkLMbl0QH_zdSyAQ&ved=0CDkQsAQ&biw=1003&bih=592) - theyā€™re excellent climbers and are often found in trees. > > ETA: Or maybe northern water snakes. šŸ™‚ The thicker of the two vertical sections does look a bit like the pattern on a black rat snake, but it would have to be a juvenile to be showing that much pattern. Based on the relative sizes, including the part in the upper left that is definitely part of a northern water snake, I think it is two northern water snakes. But black rat snake was definitely a choice I gave some thought to. Iā€™ll add that when kayaking and canoeing in PA, MD and OH, the only snakes I have seen in trees have been northern water snakes and queen snakes. Iā€™ve seen black rats in trees, but never from a boat. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/6 "2011-06-03T16:49:23Z")
Those are African Mordooma Vipers. They must have escaped from somebodyā€™s serpentatrium. Mordooma vipers are among the worldā€™s deadliest snakes; untreated envenomed bites are fatal virtually 100% of the time. Fortunately, the two in the picture and any offspring they may have are unlikely to survive a Pennsylvania winter. Until then, however, antivenin needs to be made available locally, and of course the public must be alerted to the danger, so bring the pictures to the attention of local health care and wildlife officials ASAP. It might not be a bad idea to take the initiative of alerting the news media as well. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/7 "2011-06-03T17:19:38Z")
[Hereā€™s a picture](http://www.flickr.com/photos/75905404@N00/4545912496/) that I took about a year ago in central Ohio of two snakes in a tree. I think they are rat snakes, but Iā€™m not an expert. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/8 "2011-06-03T17:38:11Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > [Hereā€™s a picture](http://www.flickr.com/photos/75905404@N00/4545912496/) that I took about a year ago in central Ohio of two snakes in a tree. I think they are rat snakes, but Iā€™m not an expert. **Giles** , believe it or not, those are also northern water snakes. The one on top has the typical dorsal pattern faintly visible, and the belly pattern is clearly a water snake. The pattern is completely obscure on the bottom one, so the only clues are: itā€™s not jet black, itā€™s not shiny, and the scales are strongly keeled instead of weakly keeled as in a rat snake. These two are also preparing to mate. I had no idea water snakes were so fond of mating in trees. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/9 "2011-06-03T17:43:32Z")
Or that there were so many herpverts around taking pictures! ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/10 "2011-06-03T17:49:24Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Or that there were so many herpverts around taking pictures! To be fair to **kayaker** and **Giles** , both of these pairs appear to be in the foreplay stage, so it doesnā€™t quite qualify as snake porn, I donā€™t think. I have watched the whole act many times, so I guess I am a herpvert. Nice word. Want to hear about my sexing probes? šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/11 "2011-06-03T17:58:46Z")
I have had it with these monkey fightinā€™ snakes in this Monday to Friday tree! šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/12 "2011-06-03T18:11:24Z")
I agree with **Crotalus** , northern water snakes, for all the reasons he provides. I frequently find Florida water snakes in trees over or adjacent to water, but Iā€™ve never seen courtship there. Iā€™m not sure what that says about the relative libido of these two closely aligned snakes. Is it a Yankee thing? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/13 "2011-06-03T18:25:06Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Want to hear about my sexing probes? šŸ™‚ Well, I had a friend who used to keep snakes so Iā€™ve seen the stainless steel dildo in action. I once helped him flushing his snakes ā€œpocketā€ (where the hemipenes live) when the snake had an abscessed penis.:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/14 "2011-06-03T18:26:18Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > I agree with **Crotalus** , northern water snakes, for all the reasons he provides. > > I frequently find Florida water snakes in trees over or adjacent to water, but Iā€™ve never seen courtship there. > > Iā€™m not sure what that says about the relative libido of these two closely aligned snakes. Is it a Yankee thing? Dan, I just think you need to keep your eyes peeled for arboreal courtship behavior in the genus Nerodia. Might be a paper in it. šŸ™‚ By the way, do you have trouble remembering that Nerodia is the genus now? Natrix still comes to mind first for me. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/15 "2011-06-03T19:26:05Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Well, I had a friend who used to keep snakes so Iā€™ve seen the stainless steel dildo in action. I once helped him flushing his snakes ā€œpocketā€ (where the hemipenes live) when the snake had an abscessed penis.:eek: There arenā€™t too many of us on here who have performed genital first aid on a snake. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/16 "2011-06-03T22:28:46Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Dan, I just think you need to keep your eyes peeled for arboreal courtship behavior in the genus Nerodia. Might be a paper in it. šŸ™‚ By the way, do you have trouble remembering that Nerodia is the genus now? Natrix still comes to mind first for me. Iā€™ve seen it on land (well, mud) and Iā€™ve seen breeding ā€œballsā€ under water that looked like a submerged version of the mass courtship garter snakes indulge in. But never arboreal sex in water snakes. Youā€™re right, night be a publication there! šŸ˜‰ And yes, my brain still pops Natrix forward. I have to reflect ā€œNow what was it they changed that to?ā€ Is it my age? Or my stubbornness? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snake-in-a-tree-id/584196/17 "2011-06-03T22:44:07Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > There arenā€™t too many of us on here who have performed genital first aid on a snake. šŸ˜ƒ We had a snake whose genus was your namesake that had traumatically everted hemipenes after being run over by a car. One of our volunteer veterinarians wanted to work on it, but he had handled very few snakes and zero venomous ones. Even after I anesthetized the animal, he insisted that I keep a hold on its head, and he kept looking at me and the ā€œbusiness endā€ in my hands nervously over and over for about ten minutes while he fooled around ineffectually with the snakeā€™s more delicate parts. Finally he gave up, with apologies, stating that he was just too scared to continue. Trusting the anesthesia machine (better living through chemistry!) I finished up myself.