# SNAP Budget Proposal - Is Individual Delivery of Food Packages Really Going to Save Money? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794 "2018-02-13T21:56:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/181 "2018-02-15T01:54:31Z")
Conservatives: Public heath care is terrible. Public education is terrible. Public housing is terrible. Public infrastructure is terrible. Public pensions are terrible. Public air traffic control is terrible. But public food supplies? This just… might… work! ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/182 "2018-02-15T01:54:40Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What percentage of SNAP recipients need high-calorie diets because they are expending a lot of calories? > > Certainly not the 30% who don’t work. Ah. We’re back to “the poors shouldn’t be eating chips.” I was wondering. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/183 "2018-02-15T03:37:24Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What percentage of SNAP recipients need high-calorie diets because they are expending a lot of calories? > > Certainly not the 30% who don’t work. Children? People who have certain diseases where they need to eat more? (AIDS, some types of cancer, some metabolic diseases, etc.) People who are job-hunting, and walking a lot in the process? SNAP enables people to have food THEY like, and can store and prepare. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/184 "2018-02-15T03:46:36Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What percentage of SNAP recipients need high-calorie diets because they are expending a lot of calories? We had a thread where I calculated that I was eating about 3,000 calories a day - twice what a woman of my age is “supposed to” be eating. I lost 20 pounds over six months eating 3,000 calories a day at that job. So I was one of them. (I still eat a lot, but no longer need food stamps. Yay me! Clawing my way back up to the middle class! Go me!) But yeah, teenagers can easily eat a LOT of calories between growing and maybe sports. And what **nearwhildheaven** said. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/185 "2018-02-15T05:31:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > We actually covered some of that in the thread on [Gwenyth Paltrow’s Food Stamp Diet](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=754446) On an EBT budget it is entirely possible to purchase extremely healthy food that has too few calories to ensure long-term existence. The “S” in SNAP is for supplemental. SNAP is not meant to be anyone’s only source of food. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/186 "2018-02-15T05:35:14Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Children? > > People who have certain diseases where they need to eat more? (AIDS, some types of cancer, some metabolic diseases, etc.) > > People who are job-hunting, and walking a lot in the process? > > SNAP enables people to have food THEY like, and can store and prepare. Cite please, that eating chips and the like is recommended by medical professionals for people in any of those categories. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/187 "2018-02-15T06:11:12Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Cite please, that eating chips and the like is recommended by medical professionals for people in any of those categories. Moved goalposts. Nobody here has claimed that eating large quantities of chips is healthy in and of itself, much less that medical professionals recommend it. What’s being pointed out is simply that for poor people who can’t afford adequate amounts of healthy foods, using a calorie-dense, nutrient-poor, low-cost food like chips to boost one’s calorie intake can be at least somewhat better than the alternative of not getting enough calories at all. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/188 "2018-02-15T06:16:33Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What’s being pointed out is simply that for poor people who can’t afford adequate amounts of healthy foods, using a calorie-dense, nutrient-poor, low-cost food like chips to boost one’s calorie intake can be at least somewhat better than the alternative of not getting enough calories at all. Should the government help pay for unhealthy eating? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/189 "2018-02-15T06:36:29Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Should the government help pay for unhealthy eating? If what you mean by that is “Should the government refrain from wasting a lot of money and effort attempting to micromanage the day-to-day dietary choices of recipients of nutritional assistance”, the answer is yes. I’m all in favor of governmental initiatives, especially local ones, for encouraging low-income people to eat healthier and cheaper overall. But the idea that the feds should be expending resources on trying to make sure that the poors can’t eat any potato chips on the government’s dime is just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/190 "2018-02-15T06:47:56Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The “S” in SNAP is for supplemental. SNAP is not meant to be anyone’s only source of food. Yeah, those disabled freeloaders who want to ride around in a wheelchairs with just one broken leg. If they don’t work, let them eat from the government’s assortment of feed pellets and grains they get each month. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/191 "2018-02-15T12:56:10Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Should the government help pay for unhealthy eating? Should the government be involved in the day-to-day decisions of what poor people have for lunch? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/192 "2018-02-15T13:34:34Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Sorry, I guess I wasn’t clear. I didn’t mean that people on nutritional assistance in general need high-calorie diets. I was just explaining one reason that getting “empty calories” from unhealthy foods can be better than **not** getting them. For several months I was working two part-time industrial jobs and was bicycling between them because it was busy season and I was working too hard to get my car fixed. Put in around 30 miles a day in addition to being on my feet all day at work. If I hadn’t been living with my mom (for instance, if I didn’t have any living close relatives or friends to live with, or had dependent children) I would have not been able to afford to get my car repaired at all. I could have used the food assistance and “empty” calories in that instance. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/193 "2018-02-15T14:26:06Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Should the government help pay for unhealthy eating? Apparently, if it’s a school lunch, yes. Because providing healthy food is a waste because the kids just throw it away. To quote Secretary of Agriculture Sonny Perdue “If kids aren’t eating the food and it end up in the trash they aren’t gettimg any nutrition, this undermining the intent of the program”. > **[Republicans take aim at school nutrition standards, opening bigger debate](https://www.startribune.com/republicans-take-aim-at-school-nutrition-standards-opening-bigger-debate/421536213/)** > > Scaling back some Obama-era school lunch standards is supported by some Minnesota school nutrition directors but troubling for groups fighting childhood obesity. And I seem to recall another complaint of the healthy school lunch program, even if I can’t find a cite - and that was that the teenaged boys required way more calories than the average American and the school lunches were leaving them hungry. Funny how the Republicans understood these points back when they hated the idea of the government dictating what people ate. I see another problem with the SNAP “Harvest box” proposal. Many families get other food aid in addition to SNAP. And most of that aid is highly restrictive. WIC is the program I’m thinking about and it provides eligible families with plenty of milk, juice, cereal ,bread, eggs and cheese —-and not much else. So if the SNAP boxes are duplicating the WIC food, that’s wasteful and problematic. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/194 "2018-02-15T14:48:06Z")
Jesus Christ. “States can use existing infrastructure for delivery” Yep, State and local government has hundreds of empty warehouses and delivery trucks that just sit and idle all day long. Along with existing employees that do nothing but twiddle there thumbs all day. We’ll put them to work. Fucking morons that haven’t done a hard days work in their entire lives think they can just snap their fingers and some butler or maid will make it so. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/195 "2018-02-15T15:02:13Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Or we could, hold on a moment because this is a totally revolutionary idea and it is going to blow your mind, have the government create infrastructure to deliver items to peoples homes. We could pay for this by having people buy things, we could call them ‘licky stickers’ that you put on the items. Then, assuming the item has the correct number of ‘licky stickers’, the delivery people whom we will call ‘letter walking people’ could deliver the items to the the physical address. We could even set it up so that you could give an item to a ‘letter walking person’ and then, assuming it had the correct ‘licky stickers’ on it, it would be delivered to whomever you wished. Once we had that in place we could use it to deliver the food boxes. > > Seriously, we already have the infrastructure for delivering goods to homes in the U.S. Why not set up the post offices as distribution centers? Shouldn’t be that hard, the infrastructure already exists, the drivers already have routes, it will cover the vast majority of the U.S. and most of the work is already done. > > Slee I was not aware that the USPS had warehouses, coolers and freezers, along with the space and manpower to put together millions of individual custom boxes. I thought they just delivered mail. Huh. And of course, the mail system is free to use for the govt, right? It costs about $15 to send a 25lb. package. You can play around with different [weights here.](https://postcalc.usps.com/) Is the USPS supposed to subsidize this, or where is that money coming from? > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > There are such things as _empty calories_, like chips and soda. You can look it up if you’re interested. Don’t really need to, thank you very much. You are missing the point entirely. If I am burning 3200+ calories a day, getting all of those calories through “healthy” food is simply unaffordable. I usually ate about 1500 calories worth of “healthy”, and packed the rest with the cheapest calories I could find. I was keeping a very close count on my calorie intake. If I could have afforded to put another couple hundred a day, I would have. I went from a bit over 200lbs (which was a bit too heavy, to be sure) to around 155 over the course of 3 months. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What percentage of SNAP recipients need high-calorie diets because they are expending a lot of calories? > > Certainly not the 30% who don’t work. What about the 70% who do? I don’t know if you’ve ever worked a job that requires more effort than pushing a mouse around, but there are people out there that do put in a bit more physical effort than you do. Many of these more physically demanding jobs are also low paying, and cause one to seek assistance for their nutritional needs. It does turn out that people are different, and have different needs based on their bodies and their activities. Now, if you could get these calories through healthy foods, that would be great. But, as healthy foods cost more, you cannot. Unless you are their personal dietician, you have no qualifications for judging them on their food choices. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/196 "2018-02-15T17:53:33Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > … > > Fucking morons that haven’t done a hard days work in their entire lives think they can just snap their fingers and some butler or maid will make it so. Wouldn’t that be SNAP their fingers… ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/197 "2018-02-15T19:18:17Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > … Funny how the Republicans understood these points back when they hated the idea of the government dictating what people ate. … Please remind us, what were your thoughts on Michelle Obama’s pet project back then? Were Democrats busy denouncing the idea because it was “government dictating what people ate”? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/198 "2018-02-15T19:43:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Please remind us, what were your thoughts on Michelle Obama’s pet project back then? Were Democrats busy denouncing the idea because it was “government dictating what people ate”? Was she dictating what people ate? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/199 "2018-02-15T20:00:10Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Was she dictating what people ate? That seemed to be the gist of Ann Hedonia’s post: > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Apparently, if it’s a school lunch, yes. Because providing healthy food is a waste because the kids just throw it away. To quote Secretary of Agriculture Sonny Perdue “If kids aren’t eating the food and it end up in the trash they aren’t gettimg any nutrition, this undermining the intent of the program”. > > [http://www.startribune.com/republicans-target-school-nutrition-standards/421536213/](http://www.startribune.com/republicans-target-school-nutrition-standards/421536213/) > > And I seem to recall another complaint of the healthy school lunch program, even if I can’t find a cite - and that was that the teenaged boys required way more calories than the average American and the school lunches were leaving them hungry. Funny how the Republicans understood these points back when they hated the idea of the government dictating what people ate. … If you’ve got a quibble with the phrase “the government dictating what people ate”, I suggest you take it up with her, because she’s the one that said it. I merely quoted. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/200 "2018-02-15T20:28:02Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That seemed to be the gist of Ann Hedonia’s post: > > If you’ve got a quibble with the phrase “the government dictating what people ate”, I suggest you take it up with her, because she’s the one that said it. I merely quoted. You may want to take another look. Ann Hedonia made no comment regarding anything Michelle Obama said, she was noting that Republicans have previously expressed shock, dismay, and horror that the government would dare to presume to tell American schoolchildren what they can and cannot eat. Your response wasn’t even a particularly clever twisting of her words. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794.md?page=11)