# SNAP Budget Proposal - Is Individual Delivery of Food Packages Really Going to Save Money? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794 "2018-02-13T21:56:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/61 "2018-02-14T18:04:17Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > SNAP is for providing nutrition. Chips have very little to no nutrition. But you can take them to a work sight that has no refrigeration. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/62 "2018-02-14T18:06:58Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > SNAP is for providing nutrition. Chips have very little to no nutrition. Probably about the same as white rice. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/63 "2018-02-14T18:18:53Z")
The problem with chips isn’t that they have very little nutrition. The problem is that they have too much. And yes, **puddleglum** , all of the problems we’re talking about here can be solved. One way to solve them is to do exactly what we’re doing now, distribute the food at the grocery store, in the same packages that non-poor-people buy, and just give the poor people a card that buys some of that food. Other solutions are possible, too, but given that Republicans are already rejecting the easy and obvious solution, what makes you think they’ll go for any of the other solutions? Especially when, for many of them, making the system worse and less efficient is, itself, the goal. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/64 "2018-02-14T18:28:39Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > This is like a infomercial where people are unable to do a simple task without the gadget. All these concerns are trivially easy to solve. > If the food arrives bad, the recipients can exchange the bad food, and let the program know. If there are too many complaints, cancel the contract and find a new provider. > We already know who gets SNAP benefits and how many people are in their households. If they have allergies or intolerances that can easily be communicated when they sign up for the program. Those that do can be provided an alternate food. We already send them SNAP cards so instead of just a card, we send them a card and a box, mail order is a 130 year old concept that is pretty easy to do. > Odd that many people who think the government can effortlessly run a universal health care system, also believe a mail order business is much too complicated. Firstly, there is no possible chance that the government would be able to do this better than the private sector. I know that republicans hate the private sector and think that the free market is incapable of doing anything well, but you’ll have to take my word for it - there are some things the government does better alone, some things the private sector does better alone, and many things done best by a private sector that is closely-regulated by the government. Food distribution is an example of the third case. And if you think that the current government would have any interest in doing a good job at or solving any problems with their food distribution, I have a bridge to sell you. In the nonexistent chance that this was implemented, the whole thing would be riddled with graft and corruption. > [@Mdcastle](#): > > That’s because there shouldn’t be _any_ amount of steak and chips in their cart, just beans, bread, and oranges. If the intent to make stew out of steak, isn’t buying stew meat at list price still cheaper per pound than on-sale steak? > > No, it shows we’re giving them too much money if they can both eat basic meals and splurge, as opposed to just eating basic meals throughout the week and Sunday too. If they want to splurge they can get a job and earn money for a splurge. Or put another way, clearly the poor aren’t suffering enough, because they aren’t all dead yet! Any poor person who hasn’t committed suicide yet is clearly too happy. And poor people can NEVER be allowed to be happy, because otherwise what would be the point of being well-off if you can’t watch others suffer? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/65 "2018-02-14T18:30:42Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > That’s because there shouldn’t be _any_ amount of steak and chips in their cart, just beans, bread, and oranges. If the intent to make stew out of steak, isn’t buying stew meat at list price still cheaper per pound than on-sale steak? Because you should be able to dictate someone else’s food choices, right? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/66 "2018-02-14T18:38:44Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Because you should be able to dictate someone else’s food choices, right? I think the general rule is “beggars can’t be choosers”. Want to choose your own menu? Buy your own food. This doesn’t have to be complicated. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/67 "2018-02-14T18:45:55Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > Probably about the same as white rice. Probably not. Write rice is low in fat and sodium, whereas potato chips, for example, are not. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/68 "2018-02-14T18:46:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think the general rule is “beggars can’t be choosers”. Want to choose your own menu? Buy your own food. This doesn’t have to be complicated. Yeah, and fuck those too sick or disabled to work. Fuck those women with 3 kids and a deadbeat husband who took off for another household. Especially, the kids, fuck the kids, they can eat federal granola for all 3 meals, they don’t need fresh milk and a cookie at bedtime. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/69 "2018-02-14T18:57:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I think the general rule is “beggars can’t be choosers”. Want to choose your own menu? Buy your own food. This doesn’t have to be complicated. But _why?_ What societal or government interest is served by forcing people to eat food they don’t like? I mean, yes, I realize that a core tenant of republicanism is that poor people should suffer. The logic, aside from sadism, is that the only reason the poor are poor is that they’re not sufficiently incentivized to bother getting off the couch, straighten their clothes, and immediately get a six figure a year job. Which means they need more incentive to stop being poor. So we try to make them more miserable, and when that doesn’t work, we keep doubling down and doubling down and doubling down because clearly the only reason it hasn’t worked is because they haven’t been tortured enough yet. Just a wee bit more and they’ll _finally_ realize that it’s bad to be poor and all get those six-figure jobs! It’s for their own good! So yeah, this is spectacularly stupid. Well, aside from the “aside from sadism” part. If the goal is to be sadistic because it makes you feel better to have people worse off than you then its not stupid at all. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/70 "2018-02-14T19:01:56Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Yeah, and fuck those too sick or disabled to work. Fuck those women with 3 kids and a deadbeat husband who took off for another household. Especially, the kids, fuck the kids, they can eat federal granola for all 3 meals, they don’t need fresh milk and a cookie at bedtime. “Here’s a box of free food to help you out through this difficult time in your life” is a pretty far cry from “fuck those …” > [@begbert2](#): > > But _why?_ What societal or government interest is served by forcing people to eat food they don’t like? … No one’s forcing people to eat food they don’t like. We’re talking about offering free food to people. It’s a kind and generous thing to do. If those people don’t like what’s offered, they’re free to make other arrangements. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/71 "2018-02-14T19:08:23Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > If the goal is to be sadistic because it makes you feel better to have people worse off than you then its not stupid at all. I wonder if that is one of the incentives for some low income people to vote Republican. They feel like they are sticking it to people worse off than they are. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/72 "2018-02-14T19:09:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “Here’s a box of free food to help you out through this difficult time in your life” is a pretty far cry from “fuck those …” > > No one’s forcing people to eat food they don’t like. We’re talking about offering free food to people. It’s a kind and generous thing to do. If those people don’t like what’s offered, they’re free to make other arrangements. What a way to misrepresent what is being proposed. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/73 "2018-02-14T19:16:21Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I’m making some large number of a small number of recipes using X, Y and Z ingredients as opposed to allowing someone to buy whatever they like at the same rate as everyone else pays. If I buy 10,000 lbs of beef, say, it’s going to cost me less per pound than going out and buying a pound of beef…no? Same goes for basically everything else. > > Seems obvious to me that you COULD do it this way, but you seem to think that wouldn’t be the case. Sure, you can buy 10,000 lbs of beef at a price lower than that if you buy one pound of beef. But then, you have to pay someone to take that beef and package it into 1 lb packages. The store already has that labor figured into their price. The only way you are getting cost savings is if you are getting a better deal than the store is, like they are only buying 1000 lbs of beef a week, and you are buying 10,000, and that’s only going to get you a pretty small marginal increase in savings. And as a second order effect, those savings that you go by buying in bulk will come out of the higher prices that stores will have to pay because they are competing against you. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/74 "2018-02-14T19:21:20Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Firstly, there is no possible chance that the government would be able to do this better than the private sector. I know that republicans hate the private sector and think that the free market is incapable of doing anything well, but you’ll have to take my word for it - there are some things the government does better alone, some things the private sector does better alone, and many things done best by a private sector that is closely-regulated by the government. Food distribution is an example of the third case. I strongly doubt this is the case. Where government is in charge of distributing food (for example, to soldiers at war) it generally does a good job of doing it. Even worse, the current system is basically corporate welfare. Walmart makes a significant portion of its profits from the government through food stamps. I’m not particularly interesting in giving Walmart even more from the taxpayers, and if there is a good alternative I think we should look into it. > [@](#): > > And if you think that the current government would have any interest in doing a good job at or solving any problems with their food distribution, I have a bridge to sell you. In the nonexistent chance that this was implemented, the whole thing would be riddled with graft and corruption. Fair point. But the corruption of the current administration isn’t necessarily a good argument against any particular program. A corrupt administration can fuck up even the best of ideas. > [@](#): > > Or put another way, clearly the poor aren’t suffering enough, because they aren’t all dead yet! Any poor person who hasn’t committed suicide yet is clearly too happy. And poor people can NEVER be allowed to be happy, because otherwise what would be the point of being well-off if you can’t watch others suffer? This is just hyperbolic nonsense. A reasonable person can ask themselves “how can we distribute social services more efficiently?” and come to the conclusion that it is probably better to deliver food directly than it is to give vouchers to people to buy food at retail. The idea itself isn’t some plot from an evil mastermind, just because it came out of the mouth of an awful person. The thing about SNAP is that the people who need it most also tend to have the least access to grocery stores. This is the “food desert” effect you may have heard about. Wouldn’t it be better to guarantee easy and reliable access to good food delivered to your door, rather than telling people “good luck, hope you can get a ride to the good part of town, otherwise you’re stuck eating gas station food”? To be honest, I would be in support of direct food delivery over food stamps even if it didn’t save a dime and maybe even if it cost MORE than the current system. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/75 "2018-02-14T19:21:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What a way to misrepresent what is being proposed. :eek: I actually thought “forcing people to eat food they don’t like” was a pretty gross mischaracterization, but YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/76 "2018-02-14T19:22:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No one’s forcing people to eat food they don’t like. We’re talking about offering free food to people. It’s a kind and generous thing to do. If those people don’t like what’s offered, they’re free to make other arrangements. Is your objection that “no one should get something for nothing” or that you could pay less taxes if SNAP were modified? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/77 "2018-02-14T19:24:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I actually thought “forcing people to eat food they don’t like” was a pretty gross mischaracterization, but YMMV. What about “Forcing people to take food they can’t eat”? That sound better? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/78 "2018-02-14T19:30:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What about “Forcing people to take food they can’t eat”? That sound better? No one is forcing them to take it either, so it’s still inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/79 "2018-02-14T19:31:29Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Is your objection that “no one should get something for nothing” or that you could pay less taxes if SNAP were modified? Neither. I don’t think catering to the eclectic tastes of the recipients should rate very high on the list of concerns for SNAP. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/80 "2018-02-14T19:35:06Z")
It’s amazing how anti-big-government conservatives hate when government takes away individual choice, except for when its being done to those they deem lesser than themselves. Then all of a sudden its a good thing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794.md?page=5)