# SNAP Budget Proposal - Is Individual Delivery of Food Packages Really Going to Save Money? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794 "2018-02-13T21:56:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/121 "2018-02-14T21:14:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The proposal says: > > Your thoughts? My thoughts are that the imagined savings are a load of shit, and would be an even bigger load of shit in the astonishingly unlikely event that the program was run properly, with oversight, quality checks, and efforts made to prevent giving people inedible waste products. At _best_ the estimates might merely be being deceptive by only talking about _part_ of the program, like say saying that the federal part is only so big, and ignoring that the states will suddenly have to pay for their own parts of the program, to whatever greater or lesser extent that they bother to implement it. ---
**Author:** ![SingleMalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/singlemalt/32/3961_2.png) [@SingleMalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SingleMalt)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/122 "2018-02-14T21:16:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > No. [The proposal](https://www.agri-pulse.com/ext/resources/pdfs/Americas-Harvest-Box.pdf) says “The amount of food received per household would be scaled to the overall size of the household’s SNAP allotment” > > The proposal says: > Quote: > USDA would utilize a model similar to that currently used to distribute USDA Foods to other nutrition assistance programs to provide staple, shelf-stable foods (such as shelf-stable milk, juice, grains, ready-eat-cereals, pasta, peanut butter, beans, canned meat, poultry or fish, and canned fruits and vegetables) to SNAP households at approximately half the retail cost. Interesting. Although I can’t remember the last time I paid retail for groceries. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/123 "2018-02-14T21:17:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The proposal says: > > Your thoughts? My thoughts are that you should take that $2.5B per year and divide it by the 22.5M households in the US that receive SNAP. Then explain to everyone how $111 per year per household will cover all that shipping and handling and administration. Your thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/124 "2018-02-14T21:23:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The proposal says: > > Your thoughts? > [@](#): > > This proposal would save $129.2 billion over the ten-year period between Fiscal Year (FY) 2019 and FY 2028. This estimate accounts for about $2.5 billion annually in additional administrative funds for states. You expect no govt overruns? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/125 "2018-02-14T21:27:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The proposal says: > > Your thoughts? I already gave my thoughts. Something like that _might_ work at the local level, but it’s nuts to try and do it at the national level. The country is just too big to be sending out food boxes from Washington DC (not literally, but I think it’s clear what I mean). ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/126 "2018-02-14T21:29:01Z")
Not to mention that this proposal is coming from the administration that is responsible for this: [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-puertorico-meals/fema-contractor-did-not-deliver-millions-of-puerto-rico-meals-lawmakers-idUSKBN1FQ2OP](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-puertorico-meals/fema-contractor-did-not-deliver-millions-of-puerto-rico-meals-lawmakers-idUSKBN1FQ2OP) “Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) awarded a nearly $156 million contract to a one-person company that delivered just 50,000 of the expected 30 million meals.” “The lawmakers said documents showed the company, Atlanta-based Tribute Contracting, had a history of problems handling smaller government contracts worth less than $100,000 and had been barred from government work until 2019.” How anyone can trust any proposals or assurances coming from this White House right now I can not comprehend. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/127 "2018-02-14T21:38:08Z")
Those people shouldn’t have chosen to live in Puerto Rico. They should have chosen to live in the US, like real Americans! ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/128 "2018-02-14T21:40:00Z")
I didn’t realize there were other programs like this within the USDA. The “Food Distribution Program on Indian Reservations” delivers food packages. In 2017, 69% of the budget went towards food, 31% went towards administrative costs. In 2017, on 6% of SNAP’s budget went towards administrative costs. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/129 "2018-02-14T21:46:12Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The hyperbole contained in your (and a few other posters’) posts doesn’t really merit a response, but I’ll humor you with one more anyways. We’re not talking about gruel, we’re talking about “shelf-stable milk, ready to eat cereals, pasta, peanut butter, beans and canned fruit and vegetables”. Yum canned vegetables because eating fresh vegetables should be reserved for the elite. And peanut butter for those allergic to peanut butter, just don’t eat it you say, just toss it out? Shelf stable milk, now we’re going to punish them? Awesome idea, teach them never to ask for help. And diapers for new moms, and baby needs, they going to be in the box too or will this require 2 boxes? What about old people, diabetics, etc. with special diets? Have you really thought this out? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/130 "2018-02-14T21:50:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I already gave my thoughts. Something like that _might_ work at the local level, but it’s nuts to try and do it at the national level. The country is just too big to be sending out food boxes from Washington DC (not literally, but I think it’s clear what I mean). We _already_ do this: > [@](#): > > USDA currently purchases a wide variety of food for several nutrition assistance programs, including the National School Lunch Program, the Commodity Supplemental Food Program, The Emergency Food Assistance Program, and the Food Distribution Program on Indian Reservations. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/131 "2018-02-14T21:54:13Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > We _already_ do this: At much higher administrative costs than the SNAP program. That we are doing some things poorly doesn’t mean that we need to do all things poorly. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/132 "2018-02-14T21:57:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > We _already_ do this: I’ll just post this again: > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I didn’t realize there were other programs like this within the USDA. The “Food Distribution Program on Indian Reservations” delivers food packages. In 2017, 69% of the budget went towards food, 31% went towards administrative costs. In 2017, on 6% of SNAP’s budget went towards administrative costs. Question for you: Let’s disregard the budget “savings”. If the cost was EXACTLY the same, would you still say it should be a “food box” program? ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/133 "2018-02-14T22:04:57Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > If you’re taking more than $90 assistance / monthly half the additional assistance comes from these canned goods. So there should be money to buy fresh fruit if desired. > > I don’t see how canned versus fresh fruit is important really. Canned produce is less likely to spoil and is just as nutritious as the fresh food. Have you seen the cost of fresh fruits and veggies lately ?? I think this a horrible idea ! People will be getting fake milk and canned meat which is ‘spam’. I have seen the kind of food trump want to give people ,it’s welfare food ! I had a friend that got it and it was junk ! trump wouldn’t eat this fucking shit ! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/134 "2018-02-14T22:17:18Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > … Question for you: Let’s disregard the budget “savings”. Why would we do that? That’s the primary benefit I see in the proposal. $12.9B/year. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > … If the cost was EXACTLY the same, would you still say it should be a “food box” program? I don’t know. I’d be interested in some additional analysis of the “America’s Harvest Box” proposal. For example, if it would lead to healthier diet choices, or less fraud and abuse, then it might still be worth pursuing even if it were perfectly budget-neutral. In other words, I’d weight the other pros and cons, and I don’t have enough information about them currently. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/135 "2018-02-14T22:18:19Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > SNAP is for providing nutrition. Chips have very little to no nutrition. A sandwich with rotting meat because your work situation doesn’t provide for refrigeration has even less nutrition in it. Actually, chips ARE a vegetable, their main drawback is the calories added by frying them to a crisp. Otherwise, they’re as healthy as any other potato (or sweet potato, taro, parsnip, beet, or whatever other vegetable they’re made from). When I was working construction, doing physical labor, the extra calories were actually a good thing because I was burning them off doing my job. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/136 "2018-02-14T22:19:27Z")
> [@purplehearingaid](#): > > Have you seen the cost of fresh fruits and veggies lately ?? I think this a horrible idea ! People will be getting fake milk and canned meat which is ‘spam’. I have seen the kind of food trump want to give people ,it’s welfare food ! I had a friend that got it and it was junk ! trump wouldn’t eat this fucking shit ! I’m not sure if this is a serious post or intended as satire. Assuming it’s the former until proven otherwise, what does “Have you seen the cost of fresh fruits and veggies lately ??” have to do with anything? If anything, that sounds like it’d be an argument in _favor_ of the proposal, but the rest of the post makes that interpretation seem unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/137 "2018-02-14T22:21:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > … Actually, chips ARE a vegetable, their main drawback is the calories added by frying them to a crisp. Otherwise, they’re as healthy as any other potato (or sweet potato, taro, parsnip, beet, or whatever other vegetable they’re made from). When I was working construction, doing physical labor, the extra calories were actually a good thing because I was burning them off doing my job. I like to imagine the dietitians cringing as they read this ‘potato chips are healthy’ post. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/138 "2018-02-14T22:23:01Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Why would we do that? That’s the primary benefit I see in the proposal. $12.9B/year. The main reason to disregard it is that pretty much nobody you’re talking to believes these “savings” are real. You could just as easily, and plausibly, and logically, be saying that we should be sending food crates out because doing so will cause the party fairies to give everyone involved a pony. Until you plausibly sell us on the idea that the government can actually make these savings happen in the real physical world, you can’t really use those savings as a premise in further argument. Not and convince anyone, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/139 "2018-02-14T22:24:30Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > I didn’t realize there were other programs like this within the USDA. The “Food Distribution Program on Indian Reservations” delivers food packages. In 2017, 69% of the budget went towards food, 31% went towards administrative costs. In 2017, on 6% of SNAP’s budget went towards administrative costs. Sorry, don’t mind me. I’m just shouting into the void. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/140 "2018-02-14T22:24:48Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > A sandwich with rotting meat because your work situation doesn’t provide for refrigeration has even less nutrition in it. > > Actually, chips ARE a vegetable, their main drawback is the calories added by frying them to a crisp. Otherwise, they’re as healthy as any other potato (or sweet potato, taro, parsnip, beet, or whatever other vegetable they’re made from). When I was working construction, doing physical labor, the extra calories were actually a good thing because I was burning them off doing my job. In fact, as far as raw calorie intake goes, junk food is actually the most economical. When I was going through my bout of poverty a few years back, I read the nutritional info for all the foods (I was working in a grocery store), and found that hot pockets and cans of peanuts gave you the best calorie per dollar. It’s empty calories, to be sure, but it’s calories. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794.md?page=8)