# SNAP Budget Proposal - Is Individual Delivery of Food Packages Really Going to Save Money? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794 "2018-02-13T21:56:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/141 "2018-02-14T22:28:58Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I strongly doubt this is the case. Where government is in charge of distributing food (for example, to soldiers at war) it generally does a good job of doing it. The military doesn’t have the budgetary constraints of the social welfare system. They do a good job, but it doesn’t come nearly as cheap as either SNAP or your local grocery store. > [@](#): > > Even worse, the current system is basically corporate welfare. Walmart makes a significant portion of its profits from the government through food stamps. I’m not particularly interesting in giving Walmart even more from the taxpayers, and if there is a good alternative I think we should look into it. Then we should focus on things like worker’s wages and working conditions rather than depriving poor people of food benefits. > [@](#): > > This is just hyperbolic nonsense. A reasonable person can ask themselves “how can we distribute social services more efficiently?” and come to the conclusion that it is probably better to deliver food directly than it is to give vouchers to people to buy food at retail. The idea itself isn’t some plot from an evil mastermind, just because it came out of the mouth of an awful person. A person familiar with history will know that we _used to_ distribute actual goods to the poor (in the Great Depression it was called “being on relief”). We moved to the current system because it was more efficient and had less opportunity for fraud and diversion. > [@](#): > > The thing about SNAP is that the people who need it most also tend to have the least access to grocery stores. This is the “food desert” effect you may have heard about. Wouldn’t it be better to guarantee easy and reliable access to good food delivered to your door, rather than telling people “good luck, hope you can get a ride to the good part of town, otherwise you’re stuck eating gas station food”? To be honest, I would be in support of direct food delivery over food stamps even if it didn’t save a dime and maybe even if it cost MORE than the current system. That is available to poor people who want to opt-in even now. There are several non-profits offering this service. The USDA is currently experimenting with allowing on-line purchases of food with EBT via companies like Amazon which deliver direct to the customers door (or wherever they want it sent). And yes, many people on SNAP have a smart phone - it’s not a great one, and the minutes are sharply limited, but it does enable them to get on-line for tasks like job applications. So, the USDA is already trying to find ways to accommodate those in food deserts or who can benefit from delivery. But it’s not trying to set up a parallel food system, it’s trying to use the infrastructure already in place in a better manner. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/142 "2018-02-14T22:30:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Neither. I don’t think catering to the eclectic tastes of the recipients should rate very high on the list of concerns for SNAP. How about “catering” to those with food allergies, lactose intolerance (a genetic state the MAJORITY of humanity has), diabetes, or other medical conditions? Or should they just go into a corner and die so they don’t bother you? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/143 "2018-02-14T22:36:31Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > In fact, as far as raw calorie intake goes, junk food is actually the most economical. Yep, and that’s one of the big problems. > [@](#): > > When I was going through my bout of poverty a few years back, I read the nutritional info for all the foods (I was working in a grocery store), and found that hot pockets and cans of peanuts gave you the best calorie per dollar. > > It’s empty calories, to be sure, but it’s calories. Peanuts are not empty calories. Hot pockets and other highly processed foods are generally _no bueno_, though. Peanuts are generally classified as a snack, and you don’t want to pig out on them, but they are not empty calories like chips or sodas or twinkies. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/144 "2018-02-14T22:37:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Are you talking about a custom box that is made up of all the items that the customer orders, a box that needs to be individually put together by govt employees working in these warehouses, or are you talking about having the options of boxes a, b, c, d, or e? It would need to be a custom box. Not everyone receives the same level of assistance or gets the same SNAP benefits. I was imagining something more like an online grocery store, where SNAP recipients spend virtual currency (depending on their level of benefits) on items they want, and the government delivers them. The savings would come (primarily) from using more inexpensive/less perishable foods, efficiency of scale gains over local neighborhood stores, and eliminating the retail profit margin. Extra expenses would be handling and shipping. To be completely honest, I don’t actually know if the savings would outweigh the extra cost, but I would be in support of this even if it cost extra in taxes. I know people currently on SNAP. I have been on public assistance myself, although it was a lifetime ago. Some people can’t realistically get to a grocery store, because they live in a food desert and lack reliable transportation. It’s not a “broken” system, per se, but it could be a lot better. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/145 "2018-02-14T22:39:34Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Or should they just go into a corner and die so they don’t bother you? This doesn’t help. Some of us are trying to have an actual good-faith debate on this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/146 "2018-02-14T22:43:04Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > For example, neighborhood grocery stores pay dearly for having a lot of variety and availability. They throw out a LOT of fresh food (conservative estimates are around 10%), in order to preserve the “customer experience.” It doesn’t help when people eat lunch by “sampling” the produce area. But really, it’s in the interest of groceries to reduce the amount of waste of that sort because it eats into their meager profits. > [@](#): > > A government-run food delivery service could save a lot of money on this end, because of the economics of scale. Instead of individual stores having to overstock at every single location in order to guarantee local availability, a city- or county-wide service would only have to overstock by a smaller margin at a single location. Food waste could be much, much lower. My store, which is part of a company with 200 stores, has at times either asked neighboring stores to make up a shortfall, helped neighbors are having a shortfall, or offered excess stock to other stores in the company. Again, there is a strong incentive to do this sort of thing to minimize stock loss. Also, the inventory and shipping are studied quite intensely, and even weather reports are taken into account for logistics. We have very little “overstock” at any one time, particularly with fresh items. Almost anything we can get delivered overnight so we don’t need to keep days and days worth of anything in the back storage area. > [@](#): > > Also, retail brand-marketing is built into the cost of everything you see in the grocery store. A government-run service would save all this cost, as well. I’m sure Aldi will be surprised to hear that. (Although Aldi the company is advertising these days, almost everything in the store is NOT a major brand name) > [@](#): > > I suspect that grocery stores keep very close track of what SNAP funds are spent on. Then, with this trended data, they raise prices on items SNAP recipients tend to buy. Why wouldn’t they? Because SNAP recipients buying habits aren’t that different from non-SNAP recipients. There’s no way to really separate out what they’re buying from the rest of the inventory using statistics. Also, since the amount of SNAP benefit is relatively inflexible raising the prices just means they purchase less overall. Unlike a middle-class shopper who can forgo various little luxuries to spend more on food, SNAP recipient budgets are not so flexible. > [@](#): > > Why should private industry profit from government assistance programs? Why does agriculture have government subsidies? Why does the government write contracts with private industries to provide services like food rations for the military, or uniforms for the military, or supply jet fuel to Air Force One, or pay private gun manufacturers for arms for the Secret Service instead of creating a parallel handgun industry just for the President’s body guard? Because sometimes it’s more efficient and cheaper to use what private industry has built rather than the government having to reinvent the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/147 "2018-02-14T22:48:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > We’re not talking about feeding them grass, we’re discussing if it would be ok to feed them “shelf-stable milk, ready to eat cereals, pasta, peanut butter, beans and canned fruit and vegetables”. So no, Rocketman is not prophetic. But that list would be bad for your health if you were 1. unable to digest lactose 2. allergic to one of those items, like peanuts or beans or milk or anything else 3. celiac 4. diabetic (too carb heavy) Guess it just sucks to be them, right? Do you expect them to quietly go to a corner and die? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/148 "2018-02-14T22:56:51Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > This doesn’t help. Some of us are trying to have an actual good-faith debate on this topic. Given that he’s responding to a refusal to cater to the wishes of the receiver of the foods, he was sort of _on_ topic. Presuming that the goal isn’t to make poor people miserable (which it _is_) or kill them (can’t say on this point), then individual people are going to have to get individually customized shipments. _Obviously_ the best way to do this would be to let them pick their food choices themselves, because otherwise you have to have the government rather invasively tracking the needs/medical data of millions of people, which is costly to implement (among other problems). Currently this is accomplished by handing them an allotment of money and letting them pick things themselves, but sometimes they buy potato chips, which makes sadists unhappy. So you could (sigh) set up an extremely expensive and complicated system to deliver food separately from stores, which would be stupid, or you could just adjust SNAP slightly to cap the type and quantity of tasty foods people are allowed to buy with it. (This could have been done decades ago of course, but we didn’t have evil people in charge back then. Well, _as_ evil.) Regarding the delivery, there are various actual real stores that are showing interest in delivering groceries. The government could, in theory, incentivize this - or just make it possible for customers to pay the fee for it with SNAP, which of course only people who desperately need the stuff delivered would do. Of course all these approaches (the ones that involve existing stores) have the obvious downside that they’re not spectacularly stupid, and it’s harder to offload substandard “food” on poor people through them. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/149 "2018-02-14T22:57:32Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The military doesn’t have the budgetary constraints of the social welfare system. They do a good job, but it doesn’t come nearly as cheap as either SNAP or your local grocery store. I don’t know how cheaply that comes, and I suspect you don’t either. Do you have any data about how much it costs the government to deliver food to soldiers at war? > [@](#): > > Then we should focus on things like worker’s wages and working conditions rather than depriving poor people of food benefits. I support addressing workers’ wages and working conditions, and am against depriving poor people of food benefits. This is not a “one or the other” issue. The current SNAP program is corporate welfare, pure and simple. > [@](#): > > A person familiar with history will know that we _used to_ distribute actual goods to the poor (in the Great Depression it was called “being on relief”). We moved to the current system because it was more efficient and had less opportunity for fraud and diversion. Your comment made me read into the history of food stamps. If you’re interested, I found a good site about it [here](https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/short-history-snap). The program has evolved quite a bit since its original inception! I didn’t know that the first food stamps were things you actually bought from the government, for example. What I didn’t find is that the SNAP program is particularly resilient to fraud and diversion, or significantly cheaper than direct delivery of food. > [@](#): > > That is available to poor people who want to opt-in even now. There are several non-profits offering this service. The USDA is currently experimenting with allowing on-line purchases of food with EBT via companies like Amazon which deliver direct to the customers door (or wherever they want it sent). And yes, many people on SNAP have a smart phone - it’s not a great one, and the minutes are sharply limited, but it does enable them to get on-line for tasks like job applications. > > So, the USDA is already trying to find ways to accommodate those in food deserts or who can benefit from delivery. But it’s not trying to set up a parallel food system, it’s trying to use the infrastructure already in place in a better manner. That’s a good start, but paying Amazon to deliver food instead of Walmart is still just another version of corporate welfare. Also, if we’re willing to pay the money it costs Amazon to deliver food to SNAP recipients, why wouldn’t we just do it ourselves? Again, we’d just be paying for Amazon’s profit margin, and retail brand premiums. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/150 "2018-02-14T23:00:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Why would we do that? That’s the primary benefit I see in the proposal. $12.9B/year. Some of us are arguing that there would be no savings and in fact the overall cost of the program would be more than the present one. > [@](#): > > I don’t know. I’d be interested in some additional analysis of the “America’s Harvest Box” proposal. For example, if it would lead to healthier diet choices, or less fraud and abuse, then it might still be worth pursuing even if it were perfectly budget-neutral. In other words, I’d weight the other pros and cons, and I don’t have enough information about them currently. Currently, the USDA reports only 1% of SNAP funds are diverted to fraud. I know my private company I work for takes about a 2-3% loss from fraud/diversion/waste every year because they keep emphasizing to us what the current number is and what we can do to reduce it (if we meet the goal it figures into our quarterly bonuses). 1%? That is a damn small loss to fraud, I’m not sure it’s possible to improve on that. Also, though I bear no love for Morgenstern he also reported in another post that he worked in the welfare office and his estimate of scammers to legit recipients is somewhere like 100 or more legit people to 1 fraudster. The health issues regarding the proposed list of items has been posted several times by me. It is questionable how “healthy” they actually are. So I don’t see where we actually gain a benefit from this proposal. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/151 "2018-02-14T23:02:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yep, and that’s one of the big problems. > Peanuts are not empty calories. Hot pockets and other highly processed foods are generally _no bueno_, though. > > Peanuts are generally classified as a snack, and you don’t want to pig out on them, but they are not empty calories like chips or sodas or twinkies. I was working at a grocery store, mostly in the garden section, and burning quite a number of calories. I figured I was taking in about 3200 calories a day, and I still lost 40 pounds over 3 months. > [@Mosier](#): > > It would need to be a custom box. Not everyone receives the same level of assistance or gets the same SNAP benefits. I was imagining something more like an online grocery store, where SNAP recipients spend virtual currency (depending on their level of benefits) on items they want, and the government delivers them. That’s going to increase cost substantially > [@](#): > > The savings would come (primarily) from using more inexpensive/less perishable foods, efficiency of scale gains over local neighborhood stores, and eliminating the retail profit margin. Extra expenses would be handling and shipping. To be completely honest, I don’t actually know if the savings would outweigh the extra cost, but I would be in support of this even if it cost extra in taxes. You think that govt can have efficiency gains over walmart? No, to be honest, I would be in favor of something like this, even if it cost more in taxes, if it actually ended up being a better system. Saving people a trip to the grocery store when trips to the grocery store are a bit of a logistical challenge is nice. If they are able to get higher nutritious foods, that’s great too. But I don’t see how this system, as currently devised, will either save money or increase the utility of the system we have now. > [@](#): > > I know people currently on SNAP. I have been on public assistance myself, although it was a lifetime ago. Some people can’t realistically get to a grocery store, because they live in a food desert and lack reliable transportation. And getting onto SNAP is a pain in the ass too. When I was having severe financial difficulties in 2010, and literally starving, I tried to apply for benefits, and was told by a rather nasty lady that I should find a job. Too stubborn/proud/lazy to fight it, I just went without food. > [@](#): > > It’s not a “broken” system, per se, but it could be a lot better. I agree, I just don’t see this proposal as being in the “better” catagory. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/152 "2018-02-14T23:03:51Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > That’s a good start, but paying Amazon to deliver food instead of Walmart is still just another version of corporate welfare. Also, if we’re willing to pay the money it costs Amazon to deliver food to SNAP recipients, why wouldn’t we just do it ourselves? Again, we’d just be paying for Amazon’s profit margin, and retail brand premiums. If we paid the money it **costs** Amazon to deliver food to SNAP recipients, then we’re not paying for their profit margin at all. Also, Amazon has _streamlined the living hell_ out of delivering things. I consider it extremely likely that if we paid their costs with a little profit on top it would still be cheaper than anything the government could do, simply because Amazon is as big as some governments and if there was a cheaper way they’d already be doing it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/153 "2018-02-14T23:05:52Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > … individual people are going to have to get individually customized shipments. _Obviously_ the best way to do this would be to let them pick their food choices themselves, because otherwise you have to have the government rather invasively tracking the needs/medical data of millions of people, which is costly to implement (among other problems). … We could provide a few variations of menus. A-F, where A is standard, B is lactose-intolerant, C is low-carb, etc. They’re already talking about sizing them to match current benefit amounts, so I don’t think it would be terribly difficult to offer a few menu options to match some specific dietary needs, without the need for _individual_ customization. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/154 "2018-02-14T23:06:09Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I like to imagine the dietitians cringing as they read this ‘potato chips are healthy’ post. For someone doing manual labor who needs the calories for energy yes, they are healthy. For an six-figure-year office worker sitting on his ass all day doing strictly mental labor (when he’s not checking his e-mail and facebook), no, not so healthy. A real dietitian understands that different people have different needs. Look up the caloric requirements for, say, working outside in winter some time. Growing young men need more than sedentary 80 year old women. Real dietitians don’t label foods as “unhealthy” so much as “eat only in moderation” or “eat rarely”. Like the sugar-coated processed grain cereals proclaiming they’re “\*\*part \*\*of a healthy diet”. Yeah, PART. Actually, sometimes the cereal is the most calorie-laden, nutrient poor portion of the spread but they don’t want you to read between the lines on that. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/155 "2018-02-14T23:07:42Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > In fact, as far as raw calorie intake goes, junk food is actually the most economical. > > When I was going through my bout of poverty a few years back, I read the nutritional info for all the foods (I was working in a grocery store), and found that hot pockets and cans of peanuts gave you the best calorie per dollar. > > It’s empty calories, to be sure, but it’s calories. Meh, at least the peanuts have protein, too. As I said in my last post, different people have different nutritional needs. Handing out one-size-fits-all food boxes totally ignores that. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/156 "2018-02-14T23:10:12Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Some of us are arguing that there would be no savings and in fact the overall cost of the program would be more than the present one. You’re not doing a very good job of it. There’s a lot of sputtering rage, and not a lot of cites or evidence to support the position that “the overall cost of the program would be more than the present one”. If that were true, I’d be onboard with opposing the change, but I don’t think it’s true. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Currently, the USDA reports only 1% of SNAP funds are diverted to fraud. The study I saw said it was slightly more than 1% diverted to “trafficking”, which is one rather specific type of fraud, not _all_ fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/157 "2018-02-14T23:11:02Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > It would need to be a custom box. Not everyone receives the same level of assistance or gets the same SNAP benefits. I was imagining something more like an online grocery store, where SNAP recipients spend virtual currency (depending on their level of benefits) on items they want, and the government delivers them. Why doesn’t the government partner with a company like Amazon, then, that already has warehouses and expertise in delivering customized boxes? [Oh, wait, they actually are trying that…](http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-food-stamps-online-grocers-2017-1) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/158 "2018-02-14T23:11:25Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Sure, you can buy 10,000 lbs of beef at a price lower than that if you buy one pound of beef. > > But then, you have to pay someone to take that beef and package it into 1 lb packages. The store already has that labor figured into their price. > > The only way you are getting cost savings is if you are getting a better deal than the store is, like they are only buying 1000 lbs of beef a week, and you are buying 10,000, and that’s only going to get you a pretty small marginal increase in savings. And as a second order effect, those savings that you go by buying in bulk will come out of the higher prices that stores will have to pay because they are competing against you. If only we had machines to do some of that… 😛 Anyway, again, I think that conceptually this could work, but not as it seems to be being proposed and there are some serious issues regardless…and I doubt that even with economies of scale it’s going to save anything (of course, it will, because what this really seems to be about is cutting money from the program, not finding better ways to distribute better and healthier food to the poor). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/159 "2018-02-14T23:14:42Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Why doesn’t the government partner with a company like Amazon, then, that already has warehouses and expertise in delivering customized boxes? > > [Oh, wait, they actually are trying that…](http://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-food-stamps-online-grocers-2017-1) The proposal would give states the option to: > [@](#): > > States will be given substantial flexibility to distribute these food benefits to participants. States can distribute these boxes through existing infrastructure, partnerships, and/or directly to residences through commercial and/or retail delivery services. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794/160 "2018-02-14T23:17:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **k9bfriender** : > > And getting onto SNAP is a pain in the ass too. When I was having severe financial difficulties in 2010, and literally starving, I tried to apply for benefits, and was told by a rather nasty lady that I should find a job. Too stubborn/proud/lazy to fight it, I just went without food. This is also true. For most of my childhood, our family income was well below the poverty line, but we couldn’t get food stamps because the welfare office couldn’t believe that a woman with a Master’s degree could possibly be that poor. For the record, she was actually working part time-- It’s just that teachers in the Catholic schools don’t make very much. I’m not sure how relevant that is to the current discussion, though, since I don’t think these changes would make a difference in how hard it is to get on the program. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snap-budget-proposal-is-individual-delivery-of-food-packages-really-going-to-save-money/808794.md?page=9)