# Sneaker stores in dying malls - why are they always the last stores remaining? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 1, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090 "2014-10-01T15:29:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090/21 "2014-10-03T15:46:22Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > But where’s the fun in shopping while you are wet and cold and there’s noplace to grab a quick snack? Well, in Florida that “wet and cold” thing isn’t such an issue. 🆒 The problem is more “being hot as balls and carrying heavy bags”, but that’s solved to some degree because people just drive between stores. > [@Jophiel](#): > > Outdoor malls are much cheaper to build and maintain which means greater profits for the property owners (and cheaper leases for the shop owners). Are they significantly cheaper? It seems to me whatever they save on not enclosing the space between stores would be eaten by the bigger parking lots required. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090/22 "2014-10-03T18:57:48Z")
In the UK, you can measure the health of a shopping centre, in or outdoor, buy the number of charity shops and Pound stores. Do you have Dollar stores in the USA and Canada? If the area regenerates, and it is happening now a lot, the charity shops get pushed out and replaced by upmarket stores and cafés. Convenience stores are generally in residential areas and usually owned and run by Asians. Most people do their grocery shopping in supermarkets, with the smaller and cheaper German chains muscling in. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090/23 "2014-10-03T19:03:21Z")
I haven’t noticed that the parking lots are any larger than for a traditional mall of the same approximate size (I’ve been involved in the landscape installation for a few so I’m not an expert but I have some idea). Also, parking lots are cheaper to maintain than heating a giant building. Wiki has a quote that doesn’t touch on the costs involved but rather mentions the higher margins: > [@](#): > > Lifestyle centers usually require less land and generate higher revenue margins, often generating close to 500 dollars per square foot, compared to an average of 330 dollars per square foot for a traditional mall, according to the president of Poag and McEwen [This article](http://www.rew-online.com/2013/02/22/its-the-end-of-the-mall-as-we-know-it/) touches more on rent costs: > [@](#): > > Why are lifestyle centers becoming the preferred destination for retailers looking to grow their revenue? One key reason is that lifestyle retail centers provide similar visibility to mall locations, but at a fraction of the cost: $25 -$60 per square foot versus $60 – $80 or more per square foot for indoor mall retail space. In the spirit of GQ, I’ll admit that I’m extrapolating here but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that lower costs to the property owner are translating to lower rent costs for the lessee. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090/24 "2014-10-03T20:57:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Are they significantly cheaper? It seems to me whatever they save on not enclosing the space between stores would be eaten by the bigger parking lots required. I honestly don’t understand this question. Why does the size of the parking lot depend on whether it is an indoor or outdoor mall? I don’t see why it matters and most indoor malls have giant parking lots anyway. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090/25 "2014-10-04T22:47:35Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > In the UK, you can measure the health of a shopping centre, in or outdoor, buy the number of charity shops and Pound stores. Do you have Dollar stores in the USA and Canada? We indeed do. Dollar Tree is currently the most ubiquitous one in at least the northeast of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Cognoscant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Cognoscant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cognoscant)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090/26 "2014-10-05T21:07:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, in Florida that “wet and cold” thing isn’t such an issue. 🆒 Well last time I went to a “town center” here in southern Florida it rained so hard I got soaked straight through my clothes, even with an umbrella. So, there is that. I figure the rents must be cheaper on the town centers (looks like that already has been touched on). Plus you can have a supermarket anchoring one, which does great business for them. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090/27 "2014-10-05T22:37:56Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > In the UK, you can measure the health of a shopping centre, in or outdoor, buy the number of charity shops and Pound stores. Do you have Dollar stores in the USA and Canada? Certainly. Dollar Stores and 99 cent stores are really big, but with inflation, a lot of things cost over a buck, so there’s now “Five Below”, where everything cost $5 or less. Some of the stuff is actually pretty decent, the posters and logo shirts are not awful, the greeting cards are actually funny, and you can get lots of $5 DVDs. I’ll frequently go to these places just to get raw material for construction projects, or Christmas stocking-stuffer gifts. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090/28 "2014-10-05T22:55:46Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Yes, I’ve seen the “town center” phenomenon recently. It seems to be a growing trend… and I just don’t get it…They build all the same stores as the old malls, but you have to go out in the rain and snow to shop there. What’s the advantage? > Maybe the rent is a bit cheaper because there’s no maintenance and heating bills to pay on the big enclosed space. But the prices in the stores don’t seem any cheaper than in the mall, and nobody advertises the “Town Center” as a cheap place to shop…they advertise it as the new, fun, trendy, fashionable place to shop… Just like the mall used to be. > But where’s the fun in shopping while you are wet and cold and there’s noplace to grab a quick snack? They’ve got some of those town centers here, complete with grocery stores, movie theaters, restaurants and bars. Only except here, on top of these town centers are a bunch of pricey condos. So basically, the people living in these condos have the whole world at there finger tips. And the only vehicle they need to get there is an elevator. Sounds kind of intriguing actually. ---
**Author:** ![mobocracy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@mobocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobocracy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090/29 "2014-10-05T23:10:43Z")
I always associate dying malls for the most part with dying suburbs – inner ring suburbs that were once middle class that have slipped into lower economic echelons. The surrounding demographic doesn’t support high-end retail and the malls themselves aren’t big enough to compete like a major regional mall. Sneaker stores seem to do well in lower income areas for some reason so they seem to kind of hang on as other spaces go empty or get filled with one-off small businesses once rents drop low enough. Mostly it seems like malls kind of represent the declining middle class – they either turn into high end spaces with upscale dining and boutiquey and high-end shops or they have to huge, theme-park like places like Mall of America, which has a theme park. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090/30 "2014-10-06T15:58:29Z")
> [@mobocracy](#): > > I always associate dying malls for the most part with dying suburbs – inner ring suburbs that were once middle class that have slipped into lower economic echelons. The surrounding demographic doesn’t support high-end retail and the malls themselves aren’t big enough to compete like a major regional mall. Not anymore. The classic enclosed mall is dying off everywhere. The anchor chains (Macys, JC Penney, Sears, etc.) are consolidating or failing. The prices at the remaining stores are frequently higher than at strip malls and discount retailers. Kids don’t even do the mallrat thing anymore. They stay home and text each other. I haven’t been to our regional mall in many years. We will sometimes go the the nearby “outlet” mall. For shoes. Several shoe stores in one place. And they’re something we have to try on before buying. Note that WalMart type places have terrible selection for shoes. So they are not a real competitor for shoe stores. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090/31 "2014-10-06T18:54:23Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Note that WalMart type places have terrible selection for shoes. So they are not a real competitor for shoe stores. I’ve had good luck finding shoes at Kohls, but they’re getting expensive. WalMart & Target have like four pairs of men’s shoes between them, and aren’t worth the trouble. Particularly for people who have a hard time finding comfortable shoes (like me), you really want a dedicated shoe store. ---
**Author:** ![mobocracy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@mobocracy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobocracy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090/32 "2014-10-06T20:35:46Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Not anymore. The classic enclosed mall is dying off everywhere. The anchor chains (Macys, JC Penney, Sears, etc.) are consolidating or failing. The prices at the remaining stores are frequently higher than at strip malls and discount retailers. Kids don’t even do the mallrat thing anymore. They stay home and text each other. The regional mall around here, Mall of America, seems to be doing well but I think this is less about shopping and more because it’s a theme park, has a zillion restaurants PLUS a food court and a movie theater. The Galleria is a high-end enclosed mall that seems to be doing pretty well, full of boutique clothes and other items that don’t seem to be the kinds of things people in that demographic buy online. I agree that the traditional mall is dying with the death of the department store anchor’s business model. What I can’t tell is if the department store is dying because of the malls or if the mall is dying because of the department store or if they are both dying at the same time. I grew up solidly in the mall era (Southdale, the first enclosed shopping mall) so mall shopping, while have some annoying qualities, seems like it kind of makes sense (climate controlled, many stores to choose from, etc). I think the economics of the shoppers is what’s changed. Too many people can’t afford department store prices and with these shoppers the mall starts to collapse because it can’t bring in the traffic. The malls in older suburbs that lack the high end demographic never see investment or boutique stores and just deflate. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090/33 "2014-10-07T03:12:05Z")
Athletic shoes seem to be inordinately important to black teenagers, and pretty important to most teenagers. So stores filling that need are the last to remain in otherwise desperate inner-city neighborhoods, and in dying malls. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaker-stores-in-dying-malls-why-are-they-always-the-last-stores-remaining/700090.md?page=1)