# Sneaky, Illegal Traffic Trick? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312 "2009-06-10T08:37:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Satellite\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Satellite\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satellite_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/41 "2009-06-11T04:05:41Z")
> [@Rich\_Mann](#): > > On topic: If I understand the situation you’ve described correctly, there is a perfectly legal way to avoid a prolonged wait that is to be discouraged because it is (for some unstated reason) considered ‘cheating’ by those who do not take advantage of it. If you re-read what **Busy Scissors** wrote, and and substitute “left” for “right” and vice-versa, you’ll realize that what he described would be illegal: In America, we would enter and follow the circle counter-clockwise. The offending car would, as soon as he hits the circle, make a sharp left and go around _clockwise_, against the flow of traffic. Same as trying to shave a few minutes off your commute by heading east on a west-bound one-way, since everyone else is using the east-bound one-way and plugging it up. S^G ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/42 "2009-06-11T04:32:46Z")
> [@Audrey\_Levins](#): > > I’m curious about U turns in general; I see signs occasionally that prohibit them (at intersections where they’d happen all the time otherwise) but if there’s no sign and no oncoming traffic, are they generally legal? I’m not how it varies from state to state. In California, generally yes. The problem with making two rights to go straight and bypass a red light is you need to make a U-turn (IIRC) about 200 ft from an intersection, and if it’s a business district you can’t make the U-turn. [QUOTE=Heropsychodreamer] You should be curtious and let him turn left. A half of a second of your time could save him minutes if there is a line of traffic behind you. He either gets in there in front of you or waits for everybody to pass. I think this is a legit maneuver on his part and have no problem with it. [/QUOTE] In California you’ll be ticketed for failure to yield. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/43 "2009-06-11T04:59:41Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Don’t do it in [Hubbard, Ohio](http://www.cityofhubbard.com/Ordinances/NewTraffic1/page0159.asp) and many other municipalities: I can’t speak of Hubbard but in most places it means when you leave the roadway. > [@Audrey\_Levins](#): > > I’m curious about U turns in general; I see signs occasionally that prohibit them (at intersections where they’d happen all the time otherwise) but if there’s no sign and no oncoming traffic, are they generally legal? > > The “trick” in the OP is one I’ve pulled occasionally, generally at very slow lights during low traffic; I don’t think I’d pull it in front of a cop, but that’s just because I don’t like giving bored cops any reason to look twice at me. I have no idea if it’s defensible legally. > > I know that you’re not allowed to cut through a business parking lot to avoid traffic; a friend of mine cut through a gas station to skip the long line of cars turning right, and got a ticket for it. > > I see people do it all the time though. Me, I’d be the schmuck who gets a ticket for it, too. In New Jersey Uturns are generally legal if there is no sign. Varies by state. > [@Patch](#): > > In California you’ll be ticketed for failure to yield. In NJ too. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/44 "2009-06-11T07:02:03Z")
> [@Satellite\_Guy](#): > > If you re-read what **Busy Scissors** wrote, and and substitute “left” for “right” and vice-versa, you’ll realize that what he described would be illegal: > In America, we would enter and follow the circle counter-clockwise. The offending car would, as soon as he hits the circle, make a sharp left and go around _clockwise_, against the flow of traffic. Same as trying to shave a few minutes off your commute by heading east on a west-bound one-way, since everyone else is using the east-bound one-way and plugging it up. > > S^G I didn’t mean that - sry for not being clear, my phrase ‘turn right at the roundabout’ caused confusion. You don’t think we’re the type of barbarians who’d drive the wrong way around a roundabout do you?🙂 In US terms, I was describing being on a 2 lane road leading up to a roundabout. Everyone wants to get off at the first exit on the roundabout, to the right. So everyone gets over to the right hand lane and lines up, creating a tailback. If you are a rude bastard, you can zip up the outside lane and try and push your way in to the queue somewhere near the front. OTOH, if you’re still a rude bastard, but with a bit of finesse, you can zip up the outside lane all the way to the roundabout, get on it and circumnavigate it (counter-clockwise), all the way round until your desired exit comes up again. In the UK, you would have right of way here to leave the roundabout and the queuing traffic would need to yield as you left the roundabout. This is what I was meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/45 "2009-06-11T07:32:14Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > “Courtesy” on the road is obeying right of way. The more drivers that operate in a predictable, consistent manner, the fewer dangerous situations and accidents there are. Bingo! “Being nice” is being dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2009, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/46 "2009-06-11T07:40:50Z")
There’s also the “left on red” trick I’ve done before when it’s late at night, there are no cars around, and I don’t feel like sitting at a red light until the green left arrow cycles. Simply turn right and do a U-turn. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/47 "2009-06-12T00:37:05Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > There’s also the “left on red” trick I’ve done before when it’s late at night, there are no cars around, and I don’t feel like sitting at a red light until the green left arrow cycles. Simply turn right and do a U-turn. That’s what’s called a Michigan Left. According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_left), it’s a common arrangement in the state of Michigan where a left turn isn’t allowed, so you have to either turn right and make a U-Turn or go through, make a U-Turn and then turn right. We have quite a few intersections here in New Orleans that require that move to make a left turn. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/48 "2009-06-12T00:56:02Z")
> [@jasonh300](#): > > That’s what’s called a Michigan Left. According to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_left), it’s a common arrangement in the state of Michigan where a left turn isn’t allowed, so you have to either turn right and make a U-Turn or go through, make a U-Turn and then turn right. > > We have quite a few intersections here in New Orleans that require that move to make a left turn. Is there a purpose for that? I’m having trouble figuring out why a left turn should be discouraged, when it’s not a one-way street going the opposite direction. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/49 "2009-06-12T12:33:24Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Don’t do it in [Hubbard, Ohio](http://www.cityofhubbard.com/Ordinances/NewTraffic1/page0159.asp) and many other municipalities: Or in Houston. I actually got a ticket for this a year ago. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/50 "2009-06-12T12:35:18Z")
But what **Rigamarole** suggested isn’t really a Michigan left, since a Michigan left isn’t a true U turn across an undivided road. Michigan lefts involve medians/boulevards. On a boulevard, you have in practice two, parallel, one way streets, and you cross the boulevard from one one-way street to the other one-way street. Michigan lefts are truly a miracle of traffic engineering, and I’m still undecided if they win against modern roundabouts or not (they’re really just _that_ perfect. The advantage of a modern roundabout is that you don’t require a boulevard, I suppose. Oh, so what’s the advantage of the Michigan left? The majority of the traffic (those not making turns) moves through in less time. Instead of four light cycles (NB/SB, turns, EB/WB, turns), there are only two light cycles (NB/SB than EB/WB). The vast majority of the straight-through traffic isn’t held up for a left-turn signal that may or may not be over- or under-utilized. For those that need to execute a left turn, it also provides an advantage in heavy traffic. Instead of waiting three, four, five, or more cycles for the left-turn signal, you’re all but guaranteed to get through in two or fewer changes. Here’s an example: In this option, to turn left in order to go EB, we’ll go NB, turn around, and turn right to go EB. It works like this: NB/SB has green, and so you go through. While NB/SB is green, the U-turn is red (if traffic’s clear, you can go on the red). As soon as the major road EB/WB is green, the U gets green. You proceed back to the intersection, which may still be red. As soon as EB/WB traffic is clear, or NB/SB gets the green, you make your right turn towards EB. Depending on timing and traffic, you can actually make this left turn without encountering a red light or even stopping your vehicle! When I travel to other parts of the country (or even parts of Michigan that we didn’t install Michigan turns at), it’s always frustrating watching the inefficiency and waste of the protected left turn signals. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/51 "2009-06-12T13:27:37Z")
Well, it’s a marvel until you have a LOT of people who want to turn left. Then, what happens is that the turn-around on the boulevard backs up onto the street, effectively removing one lane of thru traffic and creating a much greater likelihood for accidents. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/52 "2009-06-12T13:42:20Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > I hate when I’m waiting at a red light, and the guy across from me facing the oppisite direction turns left in front of me the instant the light turns green. > > Lets just say he’s lucky I don’t have a badge and a pistol. You’re probably dealing with someone from here. That’s a Pittsburgh left. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/53 "2009-06-12T14:10:54Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > Well, it’s a marvel until you have a LOT of people who want to turn left. Then, what happens is that the turn-around on the boulevard backs up onto the street, effectively removing one lane of thru traffic and creating a much greater likelihood for accidents. In principle, that shouldn’t happen. Most of the turnarounds have their own lane preceding the actual point of turn. Yet, you’re right… on rare occasions they can be saturated, in which case the correct thing to do isn’t to illegally stop in traffic, but to proceed to the next turnaround. You don’t have to go to the next stoplight; there are turnarounds ever 1/4 mile or so. This is actually faster than waiting in a saturated line. Unfortunately it only takes one stupid person to block the through-lane, so that even if you are un-stupid enough to want to go to the next turnaround, you’re still stuck behind the stupid person. And of course by time the traffic clears so that you can pass the stupid person, the turnaround you’re stuck at is already moving. Luckily this isn’t too common an occurrence where drive. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/54 "2009-06-12T17:01:49Z")
But… is the u-turn any less illegal than the signal running? Here in NC i would say no. One may feel better by right-on-redding and then u-turning, but they’re still a scoff-law, aren’t they? And yes, if you can help out by letting a left-turner sneak in front of you… that’s a good thing. Think of those lines of people waiting to go ahead, but they are stuck behind that one left-turner while he waits for the long queue of cars to come through. At some of my intersections, i’ll to slow (just takes a bit) and flash them through. Makes for happy drivers all `round! ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/55 "2009-06-12T17:12:23Z")
> [@somepumpkin](#): > > Makes for happy drivers all `round! Aside from the people behind you that you’re holding up unnecessarily…or that car coming up in the right lane who doesn’t see the turn being made and so T-bones the left-turner… ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/56 "2009-06-12T17:20:43Z")
> [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](#): > > And more than that if you can bypass a long line of cars that’s waiting at the light ahead of you by turning into a gas station on the left or something rather than making a right at the light. I don’t make a habit out of it, but it’s gotten me to work on time whereas I would have been late otherwise. In Virginia it was recently (a year or two ago) made illegal to divert through a service station or parking lot to avoid waiting at a light. I can’t find a cite, but they made sure to advertise it on the radio. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/57 "2009-06-12T17:20:43Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > In principle, that shouldn’t happen. Most of the turnarounds have their own lane preceding the actual point of turn. Yet, you’re right… on rare occasions they can be saturated, in which case the correct thing to do isn’t to illegally stop in traffic, but to proceed to the next turnaround. You don’t have to go to the next stoplight; there are turnarounds ever 1/4 mile or so. This is actually faster than waiting in a saturated line. Unfortunately it only takes one stupid person to block the through-lane, so that even if you are un-stupid enough to want to go to the next turnaround, you’re still stuck behind the stupid person. And of course by time the traffic clears so that you can pass the stupid person, the turnaround you’re stuck at is already moving. Luckily this isn’t too common an occurrence where drive. Yeah, this gets even worse near one of the intersections I frequent, 12 mile and Telegraph, where TWO northbound lanes can get stopped, because you have the A-holes who saturate and then block the lane instead of going less than 1/4 mile up the road, and you have to deal with all the people who realize they’re stuck behind the A-hole and try to get out into the adjoining lane, slowing traffic there, too. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/58 "2009-06-12T18:13:05Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > Yeah, this gets even worse near one of the intersections I frequent, 12 mile and Telegraph, where TWO northbound lanes can get stopped[.] Oh, that one. The one on the north side of 12 Mile (to turn back south) is crappy to me, too, but for a different reason. It’s actually a properly-marked, two-lane turnaround (the unmarked ones, legally, are only one lane even though we usually treat 'em as double laned). Inevitably the following occurs: the guy who’s required to stay in the inside lane after the turn doesn’t understand that he’s supposed to be in the inside line. He’ll either shoot across to head WB on 12 Mile (as the outside turner, that’s _my_ path), or he’ll turn into the second lane at the same time as I do (again, as the outside turner, second lane is supposed to be mine). ---
**Author:** ![Elret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Elret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elret)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/59 "2009-06-12T18:42:14Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > The problem with the “going down the empty lane and cutting in” theory is that it probably leads to slower average journey times overall (not for those cutting in, obviously). This is because cutting in causes braking all the way down the traffic queue, whereas merging in advance creates less of this. Therefore everyone would be better off overall if everyone merged in advance. For this reason, where a merge is well signalled in advance (on a British motorway there will typically be warnings 800, 400, and 200 yards before the actual merge, and maybe one a mile out as well), I will let people in up to a certain point (say 400 yards), but after that I will make sure there is less than half a yard between me and the next car’s bumper, and wish everyone else does the same. What gives the cutting-in people the entitlement to get to their destination 2 minutes earlier than everyone else? We’re _all_ in a hurry, you know! I really don’t get this. Why would you block people who are doing a perfectly legal and safe thing? As has been pointed out, if everyone used all the available lanes properly and took turns merging it wouldn’t lead to slower journey times for anyone at all, it would make it more efficient for everyone. At one merge point I regularly drive through, some drivers will drive over the middle of the two lanes to prevent anyone from getting by, thereby forcing one lane of traffic only. This maneuver, as well as yours, **Dead Cat** , make me wonder why you think you know better than the people who make and enforce the laws and lay of the roads? People who have engineering degrees and experience in what works have decided where there should cease to be two lanes. Why do you get to decide that no, that point should come, say, 400 yards before the experts felt it should? ---
**Author:** ![JerseyFrank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bcef8e/32.png) [@JerseyFrank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyFrank)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/60 "2009-06-12T19:08:10Z")
I watched [this animation](http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MDOT_Roads-Travel_mich_left_213414_7.swf) of a Michigan Left. I dislike it on the basis of it encourages drivers to turn into the “wrong” lane. The Michigan Left problem was solved a long time ago. I give you, [The Jughandle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jughandle). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312.md?page=4)