# Sneaky, Illegal Traffic Trick? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312 "2009-06-10T08:37:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/61 "2009-06-12T20:07:34Z")
> [@Elret](#): > > I really don’t get this. Why would you block people who are doing a perfectly legal and safe thing? As has been pointed out, if everyone used all the available lanes properly and took turns merging it wouldn’t lead to slower journey times for anyone at all, it would make it more efficient for everyone. > > At one merge point I regularly drive through, some drivers will drive over the middle of the two lanes to prevent anyone from getting by, thereby forcing one lane of traffic only. This maneuver, as well as yours, **Dead Cat** , make me wonder why you think you know better than the people who make and enforce the laws and lay of the roads? People who have engineering degrees and experience in what works have decided where there should cease to be two lanes. Why do you get to decide that no, that point should come, say, 400 yards before the experts felt it should? Read my post on page one for how “use both lanes until the choke point” is supposed to work. It is NOT supposed to be one lane zooming up, it is supposed to be 2 lanes moving at equal speed. If that happens, and people take turns, fewer shock waves are sent back through the traffic, and a better net result for all is achieved. And what makes you think that simply because people do it, that it’s legal? It’s not, and in fact cops do occasionally sit there and ticket people for this in Michigan. People speed all the time, but that doesn’t mean it’s legal. And if the speeders were directly affecting the time it takes me to get to my destination, you can bet that I would find some way to try to discourage it. ---
**Author:** ![Elret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Elret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elret)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/62 "2009-06-12T20:44:58Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > Read my post on page one for how “use both lanes until the choke point” is supposed to work. It is NOT supposed to be one lane zooming up, it is supposed to be 2 lanes moving at equal speed. If that happens, and people take turns, fewer shock waves are sent back through the traffic, and a better net result for all is achieved. > > And what makes you think that simply because people do it, that it’s legal? It’s not, and in fact cops do occasionally sit there and ticket people for this in Michigan. People speed all the time, but that doesn’t mean it’s legal. And if the speeders were directly affecting the time it takes me to get to my destination, you can bet that I would find some way to try to discourage it. I’m not sure I understand your post. I thought I was agreeing with you completely about how it’s supposed to work, and that is exactly what I’m advocating. I’m not suggesting “zooming up” anywhere, I’m suggesting people continue to drive at a safe speed in the lane they were in until the end of said lane then taking turns merging, and that I don’t understand why anyone would find forcing someone over earlier or not allowing them to merge is safer or more efficient. Are you saying that simply using the other lane to its end is illegal? Maybe it’s a regional thing but I have never seen anyone ticketed for doing so. What are they charged with? ---
**Author:** ![wisernow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@wisernow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wisernow)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/63 "2009-06-12T21:26:38Z")
Ha! Traffic lights? Roundabouts? Rules? Who needs [them](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RavLjmWdMK4)? ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/64 "2009-06-13T00:34:16Z")
> [@JerseyFrank](#): > > I watched [this animation](http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MDOT_Roads-Travel_mich_left_213414_7.swf) of a Michigan Left. I dislike it on the basis of it encourages drivers to turn into the “wrong” lane. The Michigan Left problem was solved a long time ago. I give you, [The Jughandle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jughandle). The animation is bad. You’re “supposed to” turn into the innermost lane, then signal, then get over to the far lane (like in my example above, bad drivers who don’t know which lane to turn into). So, you’ve got a good point. It does encourage people to get into the wrong lane after turning. Luckily there’re no other turn lanes in most cases, though. As for the Jughandle, I don’t care for them. [Here’s a bad example](http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.327149,-83.272601&spn=0.005322,0.010922&t=h&z=17) of a modified jughandle around here. You’ll notice it’s inconsistent from one side to the other (it’s only half a jughandle). It’s also frustrating because you don’t expect it, because Telegraph is 100% Michigan lefts for the entire stretch through the metro area, except for this one intersection at Ford Rd.! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/65 "2009-06-13T01:24:01Z")
> [@wisernow](#): > > Ha! Traffic lights? Roundabouts? Rules? Who needs [them](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RavLjmWdMK4)? Holy crap, it looks like the Keystone Kops! ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/66 "2009-06-14T00:29:26Z")
> [@Elret](#): > > I’m not sure I understand your post. I thought I was agreeing with you completely about how it’s supposed to work, and that is exactly what I’m advocating. I’m not suggesting “zooming up” anywhere, I’m suggesting people continue to drive at a safe speed in the lane they were in until the end of said lane then taking turns merging, and that I don’t understand why anyone would find forcing someone over earlier or not allowing them to merge is safer or more efficient. > > Are you saying that simply using the other lane to its end is illegal? Maybe it’s a regional thing but I have never seen anyone ticketed for doing so. What are they charged with? No no no, but the simple fact is that you can’t “force” anyone over if they are going the same speed you are, unless you stop. And stopping would be really stupid, I don’t think I have ever seen anything like that, which is why I misunderstood you. ---
**Author:** ![Elret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Elret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elret)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/67 "2009-06-14T20:10:42Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > No no no, but the simple fact is that you can’t “force” anyone over if they are going the same speed you are, unless you stop. And stopping would be really stupid, I don’t think I have ever seen anything like that, which is why I misunderstood you. Oh, ok, I see what you’re saying. But, although I agree with you in theory that both lanes should be going the same speed, the fact is that since there are so many people who think the only way to do it is to get over as soon as possible (leaving the second lane empty for however long they have deemed it to be unusable) the one lane being used tends to be going significantly under the speed limit. So I’m saying if the limit is 60, but everyone has bunched over early, we have one lane going about 30. Can you explain how you feel the other lane should be used? Should people travel in it at 30 just to match the speed of the lane next to it? Or, like the people travelling 30 down the very centre of the two lanes seem to feel, should it not be used at all? That’s what I don’t get. While yes, if everyone is using the lanes the way you have described then the discrepency in speeds wouldn’t happen, I don’t think there is anything illegal about continuing to drive in the lane I was in, at a reasonable speed. And someone deciding that because they can only go half the limit due to the lane they chose to be in, then I should only go half the limit, well that just seems silly to me. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312/68 "2009-06-15T16:36:00Z")
Yes, you should match speed at 30mph with the other lane. Doing anythign else is “cutting in line” and will cause showckwaves to be set back through the traffic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-illegal-traffic-trick/499312.md?page=3)