# sneaky self portraits in great art **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 2, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160 "2017-03-02T01:48:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/1 "2017-03-02T01:48:36Z")
Rembrandt’s painting [The Night Watch](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/4b/a5/af/4ba5afd0b3256549c7ac50116c92451f.jpg)contains a self portrait by the artist. You can see his eye and nose and cap peeking out from behind the back row. ([detail](http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/04/10/rembrandt_nightwatch_rembrandt.jpg)) In Van Eyke’s [The Arnolfini Wedding](https://tiefenbrunwhone.wikispaces.com/file/view/Jan_van_Eyck_001.jpg/114298127/806x1109/Jan_van_Eyck_001.jpg) there is a figure reflected in the mirror, which is thought to be be the artist himself.([detail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Arnolfini_Portrait,_d%C3%A9tail_(2).jpg)) Any other similar examples? There are thousands of self portraits in great art. I’m not interested in them. It only counts if it’s a small detail in a larger subject. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/2 "2017-03-02T01:57:29Z")
So, portrait-bombs? :d&r: ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/3 "2017-03-02T02:02:15Z")
I remember a theory that the Mona Lisa was a self portrait although I believe that has been disproven. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/4 "2017-03-02T02:02:38Z")
Like Michaelangelo’s portrait of himself in the skin on the Sistine’s Last Judgment? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/5 "2017-03-02T02:21:44Z")
El Greco stuck himself in the background chorus of _The Burial of Count Ortiz_, his great masterpiece in Toledo (Spain, not Ohio). ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/6 "2017-03-02T04:52:39Z")
Hitchcock frequently managed to wander through a seen in his movies, from what I hear. ---
**Author:** ![journeyman\_southpaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5e9695/32.png) [@journeyman\_southpaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/journeyman_southpaw)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/7 "2017-03-02T06:04:17Z")
The fellow on the far right of the Velázquez painting [The Surrender of Breda](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Velazquez-The_Surrender_of_Breda.jpg) is believed to be a self-portrait. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/8 "2017-03-02T14:12:46Z")
Goya’s “[Family of the Infante Don Luis.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Francisco_de_Goya._The_Family_of_the_Infante_Don_Luis_de_Borb%C3%B3n._1783.jpg)” That’s Goya in the lower left, painting the others. I especially love the guy with the bandage on his head for the way he’s looking at us. ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/9 "2017-03-02T15:47:08Z")
Is the Velasquez self-portrait in _Las Meninas_ sneaky enough, or too obvious? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/10 "2017-03-02T16:54:07Z")
I believe that the Diego Rivera mural at the Detroit Institute of Arts include Mr. Rivera himself as one of the laborers. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/11 "2017-03-02T18:02:16Z")
It’s been alleged that Hieronymus Bosch put his self-portrait under the “table”, dead-center in Hell in the right wing of the tryptich _the Garden of Earthly Delights_ > **[hieronymous bosch hidden self-portrait - Bing](https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=DTNQCJUl&id=B82F9D4FA3CA0420761D1B415E8FF9D6F8CEB049&q=hieronymous%2Bbosch%2Bhidden%2Bself-portrait&simid=608051651183250376&selectedIndex=0&qpvt=hieronymous%2Bbosch%2Bhidden%2Bself-portrait&ajaxhist=0)** > > Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you. It does kinda resemble his self-portrait, if you allow for the difference in ages [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Jheronimus_Bosch_%28cropped%29.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Jheronimus_Bosch_%28cropped%29.jpg) In any event, that face is actually the head for the “tree-man” at the center, if his sketch of that entity is any indication: [![](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8ScC6Url3u4/Ss-gaCbxohI/AAAAAAAAAEc/BfFtNgdoBsg/s320/bosch2.jpg) ](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_8ScC6Url3u4/Ss-gaCbxohI/AAAAAAAAAEc/BfFtNgdoBsg/s320/bosch2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/12 "2017-03-02T18:06:24Z")
One of the more bizarre (but, I think, not likely) suggestions is that Leonardo da Vinci himself was the inspiration for the _Mona Lisa_: [![](https://www.gramilano.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/leonardo-da-vinci-mona-lisa-2.jpg) ](https://www.gramilano.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/leonardo-da-vinci-mona-lisa-2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/13 "2017-03-02T19:29:48Z")
One of the sneakiest, if it really is a self-portrait, is Jan Van Eyck sneaking himself into _the Arnolfini Wedding_ Here’s the picture: [![](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnolfini_Portrait#/media/File:Van_Eyck_-_Arnolfini_Portrait.jpg) ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnolfini_Portrait#/media/File:Van_Eyck_-_Arnolfini_Portrait.jpg) If you look in the center in the back there’s a convex mirror reflecting the scene. Here’s a close-up: [![](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iW3TiOh00wk/TmKJmfLbPoI/AAAAAAAAAhY/cYRTU_kL7os/s1600/The_Arnolfini_Portrait%252C_d%25C3%25A9tail_%25282%2529of+mirror.jpg) ](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-iW3TiOh00wk/TmKJmfLbPoI/AAAAAAAAAhY/cYRTU_kL7os/s1600/The_Arnolfini_Portrait%252C_d%25C3%25A9tail_%25282%2529of+mirror.jpg) It’s been claimed that one of those figures is the artist. as “proof”, the writing on the wall says (in Dutch) “Jon Van Eyck was here” (seriously): [![](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnolfini_Portrait#/media/File:The_Arnolfini_Portrait,_d%C3%A9tail_(6).jpg) ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnolfini_Portrait#/media/File:The_Arnolfini_Portrait,_d%C3%A9tail_(6).jpg) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/14 "2017-03-02T20:45:49Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Goya’s “[Family of the Infante Don Luis.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Francisco_de_Goya._The_Family_of_the_Infante_Don_Luis_de_Borb%C3%B3n._1783.jpg)” That’s Goya in the lower left, painting the others. I especially love the guy with the bandage on his head for the way he’s looking at us. The interesting thing is that the artist in the lower left is painting the others from a different perspective than the actual painting… as if he’s working on an entirely different painting. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/15 "2017-03-02T20:49:59Z")
[Bazille’s Studio](http://www.artchive.com/artchive/b/bazille/bazilles_studio.jpg) should be mentioned. > [@](#): > > The scene in the painting takes place in Bazille’s studio at 9 rue de la Condamine (formerly Rue de la Paix), which he shared with Renoir from January 1868 to May 1870. As he said in a letter home, “I have amused myself hitherto by painting the interior of my studio with my friends. Manet is painting me”. The painting depicts the artist with three Impressionist painters and two other friends. They include (from left to right): Auguste Renoir (seated); the writer Emile Zola (on the stairs); probably Claude Monet (smoking); Edouard Manet (with hat and stick); the tall silhouette of Bazille himself (obscuring the picture on the easel) was added by Manet. On the right, the pianist and art collector Edmond Maitre (1840-98), Bazille’s closest friend, is sitting at the piano. On the wall above him hangs a still life painting purchased by Bazille from Monet - a symbol perhaps of the financial assistance offered by Bazille to his fellow artists. The above from [Bazille's Studio, Frederic Bazille: Analysis](http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/paintings-analysis/bazilles-studio.htm) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/16 "2017-03-02T20:57:28Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > The interesting thing is that the artist in the lower left is painting the others from a different perspective than the actual painting… as if he’s working on an entirely different painting. Several of the people are looking at you, not the artist. It’s as though you’re the painting and they’re the audience. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/17 "2017-03-02T21:50:22Z")
**Samuel F.B. Morse** started out wanting to be known as a great painter (he never dreamed he’d be remembered as an inventor – not at first), and one of his bids for immortality was his **Gallery of the Louvre** , in which he’s right smack in the middle, instructing (or annoying) a female artist [![](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-A0y7VOSPuv4/TflygCWQAbI/AAAAAAAAARQ/uTMkcnCSQaw/s1600/Gallery+of+the+Louvre.jpg) ](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-A0y7VOSPuv4/TflygCWQAbI/AAAAAAAAARQ/uTMkcnCSQaw/s1600/Gallery+of+the+Louvre.jpg) I read about this in David McCulloch’s book **the Greater Journey: Americans in Paris** , and then was delightfully surprised when the piece showed up on exhibition here at the Peabody-Essex Museum in Salem, MA recently. ---
**Author:** ![Encinitas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Encinitas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Encinitas)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/18 "2017-03-02T21:57:34Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Several of the people are looking at you, not the artist. It’s as though you’re the painting and they’re the audience. Man you just blew my mind! ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/19 "2017-03-03T00:16:50Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > One of the sneakiest, if it really is a self-portrait, is Jan Van Eyck sneaking himself into _the Arnolfini Wedding_ Wow, I did not know that. Does nobody read the OP ? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160/20 "2017-03-03T02:00:55Z")
Raphael appears in “The School of Athens.” Plato and Aristotle are at the center of the painting, surrounded by dozens of other great thinkers and historical figures of antiquity. Plato was an idealist, and is surrounded by other idealists and abstract thinkers. Aristotle was a pragmatist, so he’s surrounded by scientists and mathematicians, practical men. Raphael includes himself in the painting… on Aristotle’s side. Apparently, he regarded his craft as a practical, technical skill, not a a high art. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneaky-self-portraits-in-great-art/781160.md?page=2)