# Sneering at people with less formal education is class-based prejudice **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 5, 2023, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113 "2023-08-05T17:18:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/61 "2023-08-14T19:34:58Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Education level is not a perfect indicator of intellectual curiosity or honesty by any means, and we shouldn’t alienate people by forgetting this. At the same time, higher ed does provide students with valuable life skills, especially when it comes to critical thinking, and that can’t be discounted. There’s a reason why many careers require a college degree. The new critical thinking seems to be blindly following who they see as academically superior. Racism on the left seems to be the desire to hold anyone regardless of race accountable for their actions. The deterioration of the black family unit and society is solid evidence of this yet they seem to double down on the same beliefs as things get worse. Politically the educated seem to think the constitution is just a piece of paper and anytime they perceive something for the greater good it is fine to ignore it. I research everything even though I would much rather ignore it. I look at each issue as a stand-alone issue as issues don’t have politics. Many of you have this elite attitude that seems to make you condescending and patronizing while you rip society apart convinced that you are doing the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/62 "2023-08-14T19:40:23Z")
You seem to have utterly missed or misunderstood @Babale’s point, so I’ll quote it to you again. > [@Babale](#): > > This is a fantastic example of what @Spice_Weasel is talking about, and of the dangers of ignorance. It’s not so much about education as it is about a willingness to examine one’s own beliefs This is 180 degrees from what you just said about following the direction of those “academically superior.” You examine your own prejudice, your own moral standards, and your own assumptions of all sorts. The fact that you have also made it somehow about conservative vs liberal instead of formally educated vs not shows a ton of -your- underlying assumptions and further proves @Babale’s point. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/63 "2023-08-14T23:30:53Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > The deterioration of the black family unit and society is solid evidence of this Are you sure that you actually know [the facts on these issues](https://www.childtrends.org/publications/family-economic-and-geographic-characteristics-of-black-families-with-children) as well as you think you do? > [@](#): > > […] despite declines in formal marriage rates, close to 60 percent of Black fathers (close to 2.5 million of 4.2 million) live with their children, a fact often in contrast with public perceptions of Black men with children. Within these households, Black couples generally subscribe to egalitarian and flexible gender roles. While American fathers of all races and ethnicities are generally more involved with the care of their young children than in decades past, Black fathers—both those who live with and live apart from their children—are more likely than White or Hispanic fathers to feed or eat meals with, bathe, diaper or dress, and play or read to their children on a daily basis. > > Extended family and kin networks, a source of social support and an enduring legacy of African cultures and heritage, have also played a key role in childrearing within Black communities. […] Black grandparents play instrumental roles in childrearing and child care even when children live with their parents. Family and kin networks also serve as an important buffer for some of the negative impacts of structural and institutional racism experienced by Black families, and frequently provide emotional support and instrumental assistance such as help with transportation and finances. It’s a conservative axiom, and has been for the last half-century at least, that “the black family unit” in the US is in perpetual crisis and disintegrating from within. But [the evidence seems to indicate](https://www.nielsen.com/insights/2015/african-americans-are-increasingly-affluent-educated-and-diverse/) that overall prosperity for American Black people is making progress, even in the face of persistent racism. So when conservatives reflexively appeal to alleged “deterioration of the black family unit and society” as “solid evidence” of the wrongheadedness of liberals, their claims need to be examined a bit more closely. Yes, somebody in this situation is blindly clinging to ideological myths rather than looking seriously at the data, but it doesn’t seem to be the liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/64 "2023-08-15T15:59:19Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > The new critical thinking seems to be blindly following who they see as academically superior. It’s really more about acknowledging that there is such a thing as being an expert in something. Imagine someone who knows jack squat about farming, construction, car repair, plumbing, whatever “non-academic” pursuit you like, starts spouting off about how they know better than the people who have done it every single day for decades, because they watched a couple of youtube videos about it. That person is an idiot, a garden variety fool. The same kind of fool who applies that concept to virology, climate science, or gender studies. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/65 "2023-08-15T16:31:45Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Imagine someone who knows jack squat about farming, construction, car repair, plumbing, whatever “non-academic” pursuit you like, starts spouting off about how they know better than the people who have done it every single day for decades, because they watched a couple of youtube videos about it. For the record, this is pretty much the entire idea behind Clarkson’s Farm on Amazon Prime, although with (obviously) a huge budget to insulate the host from the real-world consequences and played for laughs. But when non-multimillionaire actors with gigantic budgets apply the same reasoning, we end up with tragedies, not comedies. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2023, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/66 "2023-08-15T17:04:14Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > It’s really more about acknowledging that there is such a thing as being an expert in something. > > Imagine someone who knows jack squat about farming, construction, car repair, plumbing, whatever “non-academic” pursuit you like, starts spouting off about how they know better than the people who have done it every single day for decades, because they watched a couple of youtube videos about it. That person is an idiot, a garden variety fool. The same kind of fool who applies that concept to virology, climate science, or gender studies. This is where I would be reaching for the “Like” button if we had one. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/67 "2023-08-16T01:40:44Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Racism on the left seems to be the desire to hold anyone regardless of race accountable for their actions. I think everyone should be held accountable for their actions, regardless of race. So that makes me a ………racist leftist?……. I wasn’t aware that this was a controversial opinion. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/68 "2023-08-16T01:59:05Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I think everyone should be held accountable for their actions, regardless of race. So that makes me a ………racist leftist?……. I wasn’t aware that this was a controversial opinion. I obviously didn’t say that right, I may have been using voice text. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/69 "2023-08-16T02:25:15Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > > > Racism on the left seems to be the desire to hold anyone regardless of race accountable for their actions. > > I think everyone should be held accountable for their actions, regardless of race. So that makes me a ………racist leftist?……. I wasn’t aware that this was a controversial opinion. I must sheepishly confess that I, too, believe that everybody should be held accountable for their actions, regardless of race. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2023, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/70 "2023-08-16T02:41:02Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > I must sheepishly confess that I, too, believe that everybody should be held accountable for their actions, regardless of race. We agree! ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2023, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/71 "2023-08-19T01:01:10Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > In fairness it goes both ways. My mother’s family looked down at my father as a snotty intellectual who thought he was better than people who got their hands dirty when they worked; he looked down on them as dullards who were uninterested and uninvolved with the rest of the world. But it’s not really “fair” in how it goes both ways, is it? The wealthy lawyer or investment banker making $500k a year driving a Mercedes doesn’t really care if the guy who mows his lawn thinks he’s a pretentious douche. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > > > There are people in the world that are not like this. There are people who have zero curiosity and just accept at face value whatever aligns with their values and never question whether the evidence exists to support their values in the first place. I have always been frustrated by these people, literally since grade school. Learning for its own sake is a worthy end and it is critical to navigating the world effectively. > > > > I just find it galling. > > I can’t speak for the majority of less educated white people but I do fall into that category myself. Most of the people I associate with fall into that category. It is my impression that the majority of us would really not even think about politics. When we feel it is threatening to our society or families of course we take interest. Racism and homophobia are almost non existent. Migration issues have nothing to do with racial issues. As for nationalism, there is nothing I can see about nationalism that isn’t just a voting issue. Conservatives feel like they are being unfairly labeled for favoring positions that have been part of this country for as far back as any of us can remember. But they are certainly not villains. But isn’t that the essence of “sneerworthiness”? You are talking about a group of people lack a formal education who are politically disinclined and generally incurious who are only galvanized to action when they feel it threatens their society or perception of what “America” means. The problem is that without an education or even an interest in learning, someone like that will have a very limited perspective of complex issues or how those issues actually impact them or society as a whole. They are susceptible to being manipulated by leaders who “dumb it down” for them, usually to serve their own ends. One of the biggest problems with lack of education is that you don’t know what you don’t know. Now on the other hand, academics and intellectuals can often abstract concepts without real understanding how they actually impact real people. ---
**Author:** ![slicedalone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slicedalone/32/12515_2.png) [@slicedalone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slicedalone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/72 "2023-08-20T10:35:49Z")
Am I being asked to respect “My ignorance is superior to your knowledge”? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/73 "2023-08-20T16:15:15Z")
The OP would have standing if Conservatives as a group were financially disadvantaged in this nation and that was the largest reason why they avoided secondary education since primary is mandated by law. Since this is not the case, I can sleep well at night knowing my disdain for them is founded on their policies AND how they choose to spend their educational dollars. Or not, as it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/74 "2023-08-20T16:28:55Z")
> [**Education.**](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2015/04/07/party-identification-trends-1992-2014/#education)Democrats lead by 22 points (57%-35%) in leaned party identification among adults with post-graduate degrees. The Democrats’ edge is narrower among those with college degrees or some post-graduate experience (49%-42%), and those with less education (47%-39%). Across all educational categories, women are more likely than men to affiliate with the Democratic Party or lean Democratic. The Democrats’ advantage is 35 points (64%-29%) among women with post-graduate degrees, but only eight points (50%-42%) among post-grad men. From [HERE](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2015/04/07/a-deep-dive-into-party-affiliation/). This is the elephant in the room. It is not any liberals fault any conservative doesn’t want higher education, The NPR self-flagellating notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/75 "2023-08-20T18:03:38Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > It is not any liberals fault any conservative doesn’t want higher education But that’s (probably) not how it works. There’s not a group of people who are liberals and a group of people who are conservatives by nature, who _then_ decide whether they want higher education or not. “Liberal” and “conservative” are political identities that people choose, and can change at any point in their lives. For many, perhaps most, people, those identities aren’t fully firmed-up until _after_ they’ve made most of the key decisions about their education. In other words, it’s usually the education level that shapes the way people identify politically, not the other way around. I think the OP is correct that there are elements in liberal (and especially progressive) political culture that are unwelcoming to people who are not college-educated professionals, and that’s one place the partisan split is coming from; people are not going to join a party where they feel like they don’t belong, or that they’re being looked down upon. I’d also say that it’s not confined to overt sneering, which is the easy part of the problem to tackle; a lot of stuff that is sincerely well-meant and trying to be inclusive of various other constituencies is _also_ alienating to people with less formal education, such as the often very fine-grained debates about what terminology should be used when discussing marginalized groups. (I’m not talking here about slurs, but about the difference between “X people” and “people of / with / experiencing X,” and that sort of thing.) That sort of discussion comes naturally to people who are good with words, good at updating their knowledge, and acculturated to find small differences in vocabulary _important_ – which is, most of the time, the type of people who are college-educated. If you’re not, it can feel like a minefield in which you’re constantly in danger of getting scolded for saying the wrong thing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/76 "2023-08-20T20:17:30Z")
There’s an OP who’s like, “Sometimes liberals are prejudiced about those with less formal education, which can be classist.” There are a million responses like, “But people with less formal education are averse to learning new things and conservative and responsible for Trump and bigots!” Sadly, the bit about “prejudice” is pretty well-established at this point. Of course there are conservative/liberal attitudes toward formal education. But there is also the incontrovertible fact that formal education is _expensive_, and that folks in poverty have less access to it. This includes both higher education, and even high school (when teens living in poverty are likely to have greater hurdles to graduation). So when folks throw up stats about how less-educated people support Trump (or whatever) in a defense of sneering at those with less education, a huge portion of whom they’re sneering at is poor people. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/77 "2023-08-20T22:28:10Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > That sort of discussion comes naturally to people who are good with words, good at updating their knowledge, and acculturated to find small differences in vocabulary _important_ – which is, most of the time, the type of people who are college-educated. If you’re not, it can feel like a minefield in which you’re constantly in danger of getting scolded for saying the wrong thing. Good point. And I will add, you can have a LOT of formal education and still feel like you’re in a minefield. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2023, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/78 "2023-08-20T22:42:08Z")
Yeah, I’m dumbing down my vocabulary all the time. I feel weird doing it, but I don’t want to look like I’m sneering. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2023, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/79 "2023-08-21T00:02:39Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > …I don’t want to look like I’m sneering. How far should you go to coddle the feels of ignorant people? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2023, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113/80 "2023-08-21T10:51:39Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Yeah, I’m dumbing down my vocabulary all the time. I feel weird doing it, but I don’t want to look like I’m sneering. Codeswitching is perfectly normal behavior. If you talk one way among academics fluent in academic-speak, and another way among teenagers fluent in teenspeak, and a third way among working-class folks fluent in working-class-speak, that’s just what adroit speakers do. Failing to codeswitch isn’t sneering, unless it’s a deliberate attempt to belittle someone; and in that case, a teenager deliberately using teen slang to flummox a parent is just as guilty. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > How far should you go to coddle the feels of ignorant people? Sure–teens shouldn’t have an obligation to forego slang, just because you or I are ignorant. But that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which is formal education. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-at-people-with-less-formal-education-is-class-based-prejudice/988113.md?page=5)