# Sneering progressives are driving young white men into the arms of the GOP **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2018, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566 "2018-05-04T09:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/281 "2018-05-07T20:30:31Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Note too that those are mainstream newspapers, not random people on Twitter or fringe websites, attacking Amy Schumer. And she made her facepalmy apology on the freaking View! Do you think it would help if the next Democratic candidate for President delivered speeches denouncing the SJW segment of the left? Or would that alienate the base too much and backfire? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/282 "2018-05-07T20:36:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > As a sidebar, I’m curious about your opinion about something: which of the three privileges you mention here do you think is most beneficial? In other words, if you had to pick just one, would you pick being white, having a stable home life, or being well-educated? White of course. Nobody follows you around a store because you have an unstable home-life or a lack of education. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/283 "2018-05-07T20:37:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I think I see where the problem is. “White privilege” isn’t “stable home life” privilege. It’s not “well educated” privilege. Those are both very real types of privilege, but they’re not white privilege. Because a black person whose parents waited until they were married, who stayed together, who didn’t abandon their kid, who encouraged their education - that black person still has to deal with the pervasive racism in American society, and a white person from exactly the same background, doesn’t. So you acknowledge there’s a hierarchy of privilege? Is a rich black person with a stable home life , less privileged than a ubiquitously labeled “white trash” guy in West Virginia who was raised, lived and died in a trailer park, hooked on opioids? Where’s his line in the hierarchy where “white privilege” begins? Or, maybe we should just say, the first guy is privileged, the second guy less so? Oh, wait, we _have_ make it about race. So let’s come up with the white guy’s black “equal”, we’ll say he’s in some ghetto in Chicago hooked on crack, then label the guy dead on opioids as “white privileged” and the dead guy on crack as, what exactly? “Black privileged” over a cockroach? I don’t have a problem with the concept of privilege. But I really think it is not in the best interest of our country to label them with race tags. Will the elimination of “white privilege” get a white guy to vote democrat who would otherwise vote republican? No, probably not. But it might get him not to vote. Which, as we saw in the last election, made a huge freakin difference. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/284 "2018-05-07T20:39:17Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Do you think it would help if the next Democratic candidate for President delivered speeches denouncing the SJW segment of the left? Or would that alienate the base too much and backfire? I don’t see how that would help, but I also don’t think the base would give a shit. Depends on what they say, I suppose. Of course, I’m never sure what anyone means when they say something like “the SJW segment of the left.” ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/285 "2018-05-07T20:43:02Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I don’t have a problem with the concept of privilege. But I really think it is not in the best interest of our country to label them with race tags. Will the elimination of “white privilege” get a white guy to vote democrat who would otherwise vote republican? No, probably not. But it might get him not to vote. Which, as we saw in the last election, made a huge freakin difference. I think it’s helpful for white people (like me!) to stop and think about white privilege now and then. It doesn’t offend me, or worry me, or make me feel attacked. It does remind me that race remains a troubling issue in our society. On the other hand, it’s not really something that comes up very often. I think those who are complaining about it have to look pretty hard to find examples. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/286 "2018-05-07T20:47:27Z")
If you don’t believe white privilege is a thing, pretend for a moment that I have a switch that would turn you black. Now, how much would you pay me not to flick it? ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/287 "2018-05-07T20:47:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > “two gentlemen in my cafe that are refusing to make a purchase\*\* or leave\*\*.” The implication, of course, being that they were asked to leave. Corroborating the NY Times story. Sorry, but I don’t think it is as simple as: 1. Two black guys walk into a Starbucks 2. Two minutes pass, while absolutely nothing else occurs. 3. Two black guys are arrested. I’ve not seen anything to that effect. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/288 "2018-05-07T20:49:25Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I don’t see how that would help, but I also don’t think the base would give a shit. Depends on what they say, I suppose. > > Of course, I’m never sure what anyone means when they say something like “the SJW segment of the left.” “People who care too much”. “People who don’t have the proper ability to not give a fuck about someone who doesn’t look like them.” “People who make me feel uncomfortable about minorities and things I’d rather not think about”. “People who are insufficiently loyal to their proper race and class”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/289 "2018-05-07T20:59:08Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > If you don’t believe white privilege is a thing, pretend for a moment that I have a switch that would turn you black. Now, how much would you pay me not to flick it? If you had a “turn white” switch connected to black people, how many do you think would want you to flick it? Do you think they’d universally love becoming white? What conclusions might we draw about the perceived pros and cons of being white from your answer? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/290 "2018-05-07T21:34:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > As a sidebar, I’m curious about your opinion about something: which of the three privileges you mention here do you think is most beneficial? In other words, if you had to pick just one, would you pick being white, having a stable home life, or being well-educated? You mean, would I rather give up going to college, or my parents? That’s hardly Sophie’s Choice you’re giving me there. In the abstract sense, I think having a poor home life, or having no education are both significantly higher barriers to success than race. I’m not sure which is more desirable between a stable home life and a good education - I guess it largely depends on what your standards for “success” are. > [@Slash1972](#): > > White of course. Nobody follows you around a store because you have an unstable home-life or a lack of education. On the other hand, “black with a college degree,” is going to open more doors for you than “white and dropped out of high school.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/291 "2018-05-07T21:59:27Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > So you acknowledge there’s a hierarchy of privilege? Is a rich black person with a stable home life , less privileged than a ubiquitously labeled “white trash” guy in West Virginia who was raised, lived and died in a trailer park, hooked on opioids? Where’s his line in the hierarchy where “white privilege” begins? Or, maybe we should just say, the first guy is privileged, the second guy less so? Oh, wait, we _have_ make it about race. So let’s come up with the white guy’s black “equal”, we’ll say he’s in some ghetto in Chicago hooked on crack, then label the guy dead on opioids as “white privileged” and the dead guy on crack as, what exactly? “Black privileged” over a cockroach? I don’t know that “hierarchy” is exactly the right term for it, but yeah, there’s lots of different kinds of privilege, and some types are a lot stronger than others. “Has money” is absolutely the best kind of privilege there is. In almost all circumstances, “rich black guy with a stable home life” has more privilege than, “poor white guy with an opioid habit.” I don’t know if “black guy dead in a crack house,” is more or less privileged than “white guy dead in a meth trailer.” The point isn’t ranking who has is worse than who, the point is examining how various societal pressures drive outcomes on a group level. White privilege didn’t get the guy in the meth truck very far, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not a factor in why there’s so many other guys dying in crack houses. > [@](#): > > I don’t have a problem with the concept of privilege. But I really think it is not in the best interest of our country to label them with race tags. Will the elimination of “white privilege” get a white guy to vote democrat who would otherwise vote republican? No, probably not. But it might get him not to vote. Which, as we saw in the last election, made a huge freakin difference. I don’t think the problems of race in this country can be addressed by ignoring them. I don’t think this is a discussion that changes things in the ballot box. Accepting the concept of racial privilege doesn’t preclude supporting gun rights, or believing that life begins at conception, or that lower corporate tax rates stimulate economic growth, or most of the traditional conservative principles. Although it would, hopefully, get them to question certain specific expressions of those principles. Ideally, the elimination of white privilege would mean the end of race as a significant demographic in voting behavior. Which, obviously, is more of a “ideal to strive towards,” than a “realistically achievable goal.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/292 "2018-05-07T22:18:07Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Well, thank god! Thank you _so much_ for sparing me. Nice to see that that’s all you got out of my post. So you made a completely unsubstantiated assertion that’s pretty much blatantly wrong (and, whether you like it or not, is exactly what racists say too). I refute it with evidence, and your response is to attempt to distract. \ ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/293 "2018-05-07T22:23:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You mean, would I rather give up going to college, or my parents? That’s hardly Sophie’s Choice you’re giving me there. > > In the abstract sense, I think having a poor home life, or having no education are both significantly higher barriers to success than race. I’m not sure which is more desirable between a stable home life and a good education - I guess it largely depends on what your standards for “success” are. > > On the other hand, “black with a college degree,” is going to open more doors for you than “white and dropped out of high school.” Thanks for the reply. My thinking is similar to yours on this matter. I don’t doubt that being white confers advantages in some situations (I also don’t have any doubt that it confers disadvantages in some particular situations too), but I think they’re rather dwarfed by other “privileges” that we, as a society, spend almost no time discussing: things like having a stable home life, or support in attaining education, etc. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/294 "2018-05-07T22:28:51Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I find the whole concept of “white privilege” offensive. … White privilege refers to the fact that for the most part, for a very long time and even still, being born white gives a person a leg up on someone born, say, black. It’s the truth, no need to choose to be offended by it. > [@E-DUB](#): > > If you don’t believe white privilege is a thing, pretend for a moment that I have a switch that would turn you black. Now, how much would you pay me not to flick it? Fuckin’ A. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/295 "2018-05-07T22:31:24Z")
Yes, unfortunately there are people on the right who think that racism has ceased to exist and if we just stop talking about it, everything will be just peachy. They’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/296 "2018-05-07T23:04:56Z")
A large part of the problem is point of view. When I say that I am in favor of social programs that benefit minorities, what some hear is that I am somehow against the majority. That in order to lift up certain classes of people I have to necessarily lower down others. But that’s not how it works - IT’S NOT A ZERO SUM GAME! There are plenty of slices of the American Dream Pie to go around. Just because I advocate making it easier for some to get their slice does not mean I am advocating to make it harder to get yours. For example: In the forty years or so of affirmative action, college enrollment of non white students has steadily risen. Surely this must mean that those new enrollees have taken spots from whites, right? Except that that is not the case; over those same forty years white enrollment has remained constant. There has been no overall reverse discrimination in college enrollment. how can that be? As demand for college educations has increased due to more non white students participating, colleges have responded by expanding, making more slots available for students. Seems logical and not at all unfair to me. And that’s not a lone example. Advocating for equal pay for women and non whites has NOT had a negative effect on men’s wages. Advocating for equal opportunities in hiring has not had a negative effect on whites getting jobs. Advocating for transgender rights has not taken away any rights for the cisgendered. . .etc. . . etc Ok, you may say, but how is it fair that my taxes support all these “minority” programs? Where’s my hand out? Well, putting aside how you sound like a two year old when you say that - I’m trying not to sneer. Let me say that 90% of farm subsidies go to white owned farms. Unemployment Insurance pays benefits to whites at a higher rate than their employment rate would predict. Same is true for Social Security, Medicare, and Worker’s Comp. Altho these are not specifically aimed at one particular group, whites benefit more from them than any other group. It is NOT TRUE that people like me who advocate for others are doing so at your expense. I dont want to take away anything from those who already have. \*\*There is plenty of room at the top for us all. \*\* this is the message we need to be putting out there. mc ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/297 "2018-05-07T23:31:50Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Yes, unfortunately there are people on the right who think that racism has ceased to exist and if we just stop talking about it, everything will be just peachy. That part is innocent enough, but then they often go on to blame the people pointing out that racism still very much exists, and still very much needs to be fought, for stirring the pot, so\* they’re\* the real racists. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/298 "2018-05-07T23:49:19Z")
@ **mikecurtis** , While at the macro level, it’s certainly true that whites, as a group, are generally doing fine, at the individual level there are people who are harmed by affirmative action programs. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/299 "2018-05-07T23:49:49Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If you had a “turn white” switch connected to black people, how many do you think would want you to flick it? Do you think they’d universally love becoming white? What conclusions might we draw about the perceived pros and cons of being white from your answer? Sorry, only one hypothetical switch to a customer. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/300 "2018-05-07T23:54:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Thanks for the reply. My thinking is similar to yours on this matter. I don’t doubt that being white confers advantages in some situations (I also don’t have any doubt that it confers disadvantages in some particular situations too), but I think they’re rather dwarfed by other “privileges” that we, as a society, spend almost no time discussing: things like having a stable home life, or support in attaining education, etc. I would argue that those are both topics that are discussed with some frequency and urgency in our society - education, in particular, where issues like school choice, inner city school funding, and protection from bear attacks have all been high profile, education-related news stories. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566.md?page=16)