# Sneering progressives are driving young white men into the arms of the GOP **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2018, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566 "2018-05-04T09:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/381 "2018-05-08T19:35:07Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sure, it could be. Do you have any cites or anything that show that predominantly black schools teach sex ed less than predominantly white schools? [2008 article on disproportionate impact of “abstinence-only” sex ed programs on students of color](https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1084&context=bjalp). > [@](#): > > The concentration of abstinence-only programs in minority schools indicates that a race-based perspective is necessary to understand the impact of these programs. Title V welfare legislation allocates abstinence-only funds in proportion to the number of children in each state who are low-income. Since poverty rates are highest among African-American and Latino families, states with large numbers of African-American and Latino youth are likely to receive larger amounts of abstinence-only funding. Not all abstinence-only funding flows through state governments; AFLA and CBAE funds may go directly to local organizations that provide abstinence education in schools. However, even these funds are more likely to find their way to poorer schools; organizations that receive AFLA and CBAE funds provide no-cost programs in schools, and schools with few resources can hardly afford to turn away these offers of outside help in the classroom. In addition, because minority students tend to be lower-income, and are therefore less likely than White students to be able to afford private secondary school education, they often have no alternative but to participate in these federally-funded abstinence-only programs. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/382 "2018-05-08T19:42:45Z")
A simple point is just that most black people still live in the South, where abstinence only rules. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/383 "2018-05-08T19:51:32Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > [2008 article on disproportionate impact of “abstinence-only” sex ed programs on students of color](https://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1084&context=bjalp). Thanks for that! ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/384 "2018-05-08T19:52:55Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > A simple point is just that most black people still live in the South, where abstinence only rules. Even if every single black person vanished from the South, I still think they’d teach abstinence only sex education there. It’s religious ideology that explains this, not racial animus. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/385 "2018-05-08T19:53:38Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > A simple point is just that most black people still live in the South, where abstinence only rules. I’m still reading through that link, but I suspect if I traveled throughout the South and asked people if they knew what condoms were and what they were used for, I think almost all people would know the correct answers. That being said, I can’t believe abstinence-only education is still a thing. Did we learn nothing from Bristol Palin?? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/386 "2018-05-08T19:58:39Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m still reading through that link, but I suspect if I traveled throughout the South and asked people if they knew what condoms were and what they were used for, I think almost all people would know the correct answers. You’re probably right that they are aware of the existence of condoms. But the question that’s important to me is: does teaching the topic of safe sex in schools statistically increase the likelihood that teens will actually use them? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/387 "2018-05-08T20:01:27Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > You’re probably right that they are aware of the existence of condoms. But the question that’s important to me is: does teaching the topic of safe sex in schools statistically increase the likelihood that teens will actually use them? I should hope so, or else why would we be doing it? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/388 "2018-05-08T20:03:59Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I don’t think it’s all or nothing. I don’t have sympathy for the armed robber. But I have a great deal of sympathy for the children who through no fault of their own were born to an environment that makes or made success more difficult. Not only minority children, but any child who is born in an environment that makes success more difficult earns my sympathy. I have sympathy for those children too. I have considerably less sympathy for the ones primarily responsible for introducing them into a dysfunctional family environment. Namely, their parents. > [@](#): > > But given the history of racial injustice in this country, it’s not a stretch to me to think that minorities experience a significant impact in their lives. Given that all groups experience negative impact from single parenting, it is not a stretch for me to think that blacks are experiencing the impact from that rather than racial injustice that happened fifty or a hundred years ago. > [@](#): > > If you say that racial injustice is not a major cause of black disadvantage now, but it was in 1965, then the obvious follow up is when do you think that changed, and if it changed, was it a bright line change, or something over time? Did different people among racial minority groups experience that change simultaneously, or could some members experience it faster or slower? It changed over time, obviously. And as racial injustice receded, those who were kept down by it advanced. The black illegitimacy rate in 1960 was much lower than it is today, even though racial injustices like Jim Crow and overt racism decreased. So, as racism decreased, the other factors affecting blacks increased. It is difficult to see why a factor that decreased is primarily responsible for phenomena that increased, when other factors that explain the difference also increased. > [@CarnalK](#): > > An extra year of your life in prison can’t possibly make any difference to your life. That is what you’re going with? Ok. > > “Regards”, > CarnalK No, an extra year of life in prison isn’t going to make all that much difference to someone who is going to prison anyway. That’s what I am going with. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Are you kidding? A year less of income, a year less of experience, a year’s greater likelihood of having one’s friends and connections who might hire you having moved away, retired, or died, and more. No, I’m not kidding. I don’t believe that those who go to prison for two years contribute all that much more to society and to their families than those who go for three. Convince me otherwise, if you like. > [@](#): > > I’m pretty sure you’re wrong on the data – [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_family_structure#Father_representative) says 28% of African-American children did not live with any father representative. Maybe that’s too high, but it’s only 13% higher than for white kids (they’re at 15%). It’s certainly not “most”. A certain former President disagrees, and [Politifact](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/jun/23/barack-obama/statistics-dont-lie-in-this-case/)backs him up. > [@](#): > > And your last sentence is ironic, since if single-parent households increase criminality, than the racism in the justice system (which you admit exists) is increasing the amount of single-parent households. No, I don’t think it significantly does increase it. I don’t have figures on how many convicts are being good fathers to their children, but an extra year in the pen causes the family to fall apart altogether - if you do, feel free. I certainly understand how going to prison in general tends to ruin your life, but I doubt an extra year or two is going to make all that much difference. > [@](#): > > Yes, they’re all scum, and there’s no point to rehabilitating. None of them can or will ever amount to anything, so there’s no reason to try. Wow - all the way from “what difference does an extra year Inside make” to “they are all scum” in just a few paragraphs. > [@](#): > > Especially when your concern is for kids, and for kids in single parent households… and you’re so unconcerned about policies and practices that, due to racism, increase the amount of single-parent households for black kids. You haven’t shown that they increase the amount of single-parent households for black kids. As I mentioned above, I have compassion for innocent children. For criminals, irresponsible parents, and their whiney excuses for why it’s society’s fault they are poor or in prison - not so much. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/389 "2018-05-08T20:06:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I should hope so, or else why would we be doing it? It would be nice if every government program had a solid scientific basis proving its effectiveness. That’s not where we are today. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/390 "2018-05-08T20:08:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I’d like to hear your explanation why black single motherhood has gone from 22% in 1960 (as Jim Crow laws were winding down - the last being eliminated in 1964), to 91% now. > > We keep locking up black men, mostly. I am not following you - how do the black men impregnate women when they are locked up? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/391 "2018-05-08T20:10:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It would be nice if every government program had a solid scientific basis proving its effectiveness. That’s not where we are today. Well, because of this thread, I learned about the Federal Teen Pregnancy Prevention Program (TPP), which is a “national, **evidence-based** program that funds diverse organizations that are working to prevent teen pregnancy across the United States” (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/392 "2018-05-08T20:12:04Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > True. None of which have much to do with racism. I’m just saying that using “teen pregnancy” as a result of racism doesn’t seem, to me, to be of much value to discussions of systemic racism and the effects thereof. > [@Blalron](#): > > Even if every single black person vanished from the South, I still think they’d teach abstinence only sex education there. It’s religious ideology that explains this, not racial animus. You do understand the historical reasons why most Black people live in the South, right? The fact that some bad thing is the result of past racism rather than present racism doesn’t mean it isn’t still the result of racism. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/393 "2018-05-08T20:15:16Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You do understand the historical reasons why most Black people live in the South, right? > > The fact that some bad thing is the result of past racism rather than present racism doesn’t mean it isn’t still the result of racism. Wait, are you saying that a majority of the South teaches abstinence-only education because a majority of black people live in the South? I would have thought that a majority of the South teaches abstinence-only education because the people responsible for educational standards are morons, not because they are racist. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/394 "2018-05-08T20:17:35Z")
Shodan, you don’t think your antecedents of fifty or a hundred years ago had an impact on how you were raised? Leaving aside genetics. I certainly think mine did, and going back much further than that. Massively disrupting a culture for hundreds of years and then expecting it to sort itself out in fifty? Not realistic. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/395 "2018-05-08T20:24:37Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You do understand the historical reasons why most Black people live in the South, right? > > The fact that some bad thing is the result of past racism rather than present racism doesn’t mean it isn’t still the result of racism. Yes, the slave trade brought their ancestors there hundreds of years ago. I don’t deny that. However, I don’t see how viewing this problem through a racial lens helps anything in the present moment. Like I said earlier, even if every single African-American magically vanished from the South overnight, the schools would still be teaching abstinence only education. Remove the variable of race, and the practice still continues. Remove the variable of religion through increasing secular humanist values, and a more sensible education system would emerge. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/396 "2018-05-08T20:30:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Do you think the choices your parents made in raising you had any impact on the choices you made later in life? Do you think you would have made the same choices if your parents had been cruel, or disinterested, or absent? What are you implying? That that’s a “black people thing?” Yikes. > [@](#): > > I’m asking, because you keep making a big deal about your parents making the right choices in raising you, but then turning around and insisting that people whose parents made bad choices are still 100% responsible for those bad choices. So, which is it? Did your upbringing have any role in making you into the person you are today or not? Are people 100% responsible for making bad choices? Yes. Yes they are. Most people figure out that blaming little Timmy for what they did isn’t going to get them far, by the time they’re in kindergarten. And you are CERTAINLY are going to make better choices if you believe that, rather than perpetually looking for someone else to blame for your problems. One you have\* direct\* control over, the other you’re just waiting for some people, somewhere, you don’t know who, but they _must_ be there, and they’re probably lacking melanin, to change things for you. Yeah, well, good luck with that. I think we’ve hit the point of diminishing returns there. Slackerinc talks about reparations? Ha. Good one. That’s a pipe dream, I hope you know. I see a bit of talk here about factors like “well, it _could_ be this, or it _could_ be that”. Oh, well, that’s helpful. I can point to SPECIFIC things ANYONE, white or black or green, can do to maximize their chances of making it the world. Statistically proven ways to mitigate against perpetual poverty. You can do them, or not. Will the white guy have it better in the end? Perhaps. Should you still do them regardless? Absolutely. Graduate highschool, get a job (and no, that’s not an unreasonable ask considering current black unemployment rates), and don’t have kids out of wedlock. I wish “don’t commit crimes” was a given and blatantly obvious, but it looks like I have to add that too. Do those things, and you have a VERY good chance of not living in permanent poverty. It is far more likely that black people addressing these problems as individuals and as a community will result in real change, than waiting for some conspiracy of oppression to dissipate in god knows how long. We’re using 50 year old quotes here, maybe we should just wait until everyone alive now is dead. Maybe that will fix it. > [@](#): > > Also, you don’t really seem to have a good idea of how to disprove things, because you keep fixating on the idea that if you can find one exception to an idea, it disproves the idea in its entirety. Yes, the justice system is stacked against minorities. No, this doesn’t mean that in every single circumstance, every single minority that encounters the justice system is going to be screwed by it. Yes, white privilege is a real thing. No, that doesn’t mean that every white person is going to be doing better than every black person, regardless of situation or circumstance. And I’m telling you that your non-violent victim-less crime of marijuana possession is very rapidly becoming less and less of a concern to would be non-violent criminals. Because it’s been decriminalized in 21 states, and growing every election cycle. The violent ones? Well, I’m going to have to side with a solution that, if anything, gets white people behind bars for just as long. I don’t really want to be around any more ex cons with a history of violence than I have to. Of any color, thank ya very much. > [@](#): > > Ah, yes. “You minorities should be thankful you only get treated a little shitty over here, because there’s places where people like you get treated _really_ shitty!” If nobody wanted me to say this, then they shouldn’t have told me to go live in some foreign country as a historically persecuted minority. Then I wouldn’t have said it. ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/397 "2018-05-08T20:31:45Z")
White males can’t even get their own thread on the SDMB without it devolving into a treatise on Black oppression. And that’s the problem. Whether or not they are born privileged, they still need a sense of identity. However, in the world of identity politics, being a straight, white, Christian male is the one identity you can’t have largely because they have been demonized as the perpetrators of all oppression. Any problems, issues, or concerns that white males face are dismissed as racist, misogynist, or weakness. To give them a voice weakens the assertion that they are the root of all problems faced by humanity as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/398 "2018-05-08T20:32:48Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > White males can’t even get their own thread on the SDMB without it devolving into a treatise on Black oppression. And that’s the problem. > > Whether or not they are born privileged, they still need a sense of identity. However, in the world of identity politics, being a straight, white, Christian male is the one identity you can’t have largely because they have been demonized as the perpetrators of all oppression. Any problems, issues, or concerns that white males face are dismissed as racist, misogynist, or weakness. To give them a voice weakens the assertion that they are the root of all problems faced by humanity as a whole. wow. Someone feels like a victim… ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/399 "2018-05-08T20:45:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Wait, are you saying that a majority of the South teaches abstinence-only education because a majority of black people live in the South? I would have thought that a majority of the South teaches abstinence-only education because the people responsible for educational standards are morons, not because they are racist. > [@Blalron](#): > > Yes, the slave trade brought their ancestors there hundreds of years ago. I don’t deny that. However, I don’t see how viewing this problem through a racial lens helps anything in the present moment. Like I said earlier, even if every single African-American magically vanished from the South overnight, the schools would still be teaching abstinence only education. Remove the variable of race, and the practice still continues. Remove the variable of religion through increasing secular humanist values, and a more sensible education system would emerge. If the question is “How do we solve teen pregnancy?” then I agree that the racism angle is not the primary lens I would use. If the question is “Why do black communities face higher rates of certain problems, is it just bad teen choices or is there still racism?” then I don’t agree that we should ignore the ways in which the country’s history of racism continues to play out today. I would also add, however, that the reasons that large parts of the South are ruled by anti-science conservatives is totally intertwined with the history of white supremacy. In very real ways, racism is what caused the South to be what it is today, in terms of industrial development, social spending, quality of public schools, etc. (I realize this is changing for the better, especially in the last decade. But there are still long legacies of these issues.) ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/400 "2018-05-08T20:52:58Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > White males can’t even get their own thread on the SDMB without it devolving into a treatise on Black oppression. And that’s the problem. > > Whether or not they are born privileged, they still need a sense of identity. However, in the world of identity politics, being **a straight, white, Christian male** is the one identity you can’t have largely because they have been demonized as the perpetrators of all oppression. Any problems, issues, or concerns that white males face are dismissed as racist, misogynist, or weakness. To give them a voice weakens the assertion that they are the root of all problems faced by humanity as a whole. Bolding mine. I identify as every single one of those traits. Here’s the rub, and why I’m not constantly harassed by friends, co-workers, or random noises on Twitter - I don’t try to blame any of my issues on those traits. As a straight, white, Christian male, I have one hell of a voice and influence in many social circles. I don’t use it to be an asshole. Crying about white oppression is what the chinless turds in Charlottesville were doing. Do you actually read what you write? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566.md?page=21)