# Sneering progressives are driving young white men into the arms of the GOP **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2018, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566 "2018-05-04T09:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/682 "2018-05-11T16:56:17Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Good on ya. You deserve credit for not slinking away. > > Maybe in the future we can debate without all the smack talk? I’m still waiting for the explanation as to what I said, specifically (meaning you have to quote a post), that you think is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/683 "2018-05-11T16:56:32Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Maybe in the future we can debate without all the smack talk? Not a chance ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/684 "2018-05-11T16:56:56Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > So…what is it that you don’t understand? Why I’m expending any energy on this meaningless discussion. Blacks murdering whites is lightning strike probability, it has nothing to do with BLM and I doubt these numbers have any effect on most people’s level of bigotry. This is a ridiculous rabbit hole. Eta: and you noticing your mistake doesn’t change the above. I know we’re mostly nerdy arguers here but some things just aren’t worth pursuing. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/685 "2018-05-11T16:57:38Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Well, I’m glad you didn’t take the bet, I just realized I was wrong. I did misunderstand your claim–I apologize to you and to \*\*BPC \*\*and to **CarnalK**. > > Arrogant, verbose and wrong is a horrible combination. So, I’ll honor my part of the bet even if it wasn’t accepted: > > I was wrong and \*\*SlackerInc \*\*was right. It’s okay, it happens, and the numbers you found were legitimate and very useful in explaining the mythology of the stereotype that white people are more in danger from black people than the reverse. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/686 "2018-05-11T17:00:35Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Why I’m expending any energy on this meaningless discussion. > > Blacks murdering whites is lightning strike probability, it has nothing to do with BLM and I doubt these numbers have any effect on most people’s level of bigotry. This is a ridiculous rabbit hole. There’s certainly a stereotype and a widespread belief that white people have more to fear from black people than the reverse. That’s a belief based on nothing but myth, and in fact, statistically (and from common sense/understanding of history for the time before statistics), any reasonable belief in the danger of cross-racial murder, on a per capita basis from the POV of potential victims, would be the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/687 "2018-05-11T17:01:34Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Why I’m expending any energy on this meaningless discussion. > > Blacks murdering whites is lightning strike probability, it has nothing to do with BLM and I doubt these numbers have any effect on most people’s level of bigotry. This is a ridiculous rabbit hole. I apologize for the aggressive post earlier, when it turns out I was the one who was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/688 "2018-05-11T17:02:27Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > No both parts are tiresome. You can’t even conceive that morphing a phrase from the early 60’s might be something to think about because right wingers will only try to undercut you. Not everyone is either on your side or a right wing talk show junkie. The tiresome part is that we have to change the way we talk about social issues because someone else, who is not even part of the conversation, may take offense. The tiresome part is that, even if I agree to change my words to make you more comfortable, all it would take is one blogger somewhere to accidentally forget that we are using carefully chosen and crafted words that won’t offend the sensibilities, and that person will be pointed out as having used those terrible words that cause so much emotional trauma. Even if we did find a phrase that would allow us to discuss how systemic racial biases negatively effect minorities, and got everyone onboard with that change, it won’t change the past, and these words that cause such distress will still exist in older publications and posts, and still be there for anyone who is looking for a reason to choose to be offended. Now, you make the accusation that I cannot “conceive that morphing a phrase…”, which is entirely untrue. I certainly can conceive of doing such a thing. I just don’t agree that it will do anything useful. You don’t have to be a right wing talk show junkie in order to be influenced by right wing talking points. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/689 "2018-05-11T17:02:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s okay, it happens, and the numbers you found were legitimate and very useful in explaining the mythology of the stereotype that white people are more in danger from black people than the reverse. Thanks, I appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/690 "2018-05-11T17:02:39Z")
EE, maybe you would be the best person to explain to Andy why he is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/691 "2018-05-11T17:04:18Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > EE, maybe you would be the best person to explain to Andy why he is wrong. Which assertion? I’ve asked a million times. This shouldn’t be hard. You still haven’t told me which specific assertion I made – actual words I wrote – that are incorrect. Why have you been so resistant to this? Pretty, pretty please, I’m begging you… show me the words I posted that are incorrect. I want to know; I want to be smarter and correct any mistakes I made. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/692 "2018-05-11T17:04:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s certainly a stereotype and a widespread belief that white people have more to fear from black people than the reverse. That’s a belief based on nothing but myth, and in fact, statistically (and from common sense/understanding of history for the time before statistics), any reasonable belief in the danger of cross-racial murder, on a per capita basis from the POV of potential victims, would be the opposite. If a random white person and a random black person are walking down the same street, the white person has better statistical grounds to be afraid than the black person. True or false? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/693 "2018-05-11T17:05:09Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The tiresome part is that we have to change the way we talk about social issues because someone else, who is not even part of the conversation, may take offense. The tiresome part is that, even if I agree to change my words to make you more comfortable, all it would take is one blogger somewhere to accidentally forget that we are using carefully chosen and crafted words that won’t offend the sensibilities, and that person will be pointed out as having used those terrible words that cause so much emotional trauma. > > Even if we did find a phrase that would allow us to discuss how systemic racial biases negatively effect minorities, and got everyone onboard with that change, it won’t change the past, and these words that cause such distress will still exist in older publications and posts, and still be there for anyone who is looking for a reason to choose to be offended. I think it makes a huge difference if people chime in saying “I’m a Democrat, and I don’t agree with this language”. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/694 "2018-05-11T17:06:29Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > If a random white person and a random black person are walking down the same street, the white person has better statistical grounds to be afraid than the black person. True or false? Nailed it in one. Why didn’t I think of that? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/695 "2018-05-11T17:06:34Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > At a certain point, whether or not liberals are attacking white men, or whether white men have privilege or not, or whether white men are more likely to be killed by black men or vice versa, is irrelevant. > > The issue is whether a substantial number of white men \*feel \*attacked or not. If they \*feel \*that way, they will vote for Trump. Whether it is a valid feeling or not is irrelevant. Whether or not they are attacked, they will feel as though they are. So, what is the solution? Continue to not attack them, and let them feel as though they are anyway, or try to get them to show some level of self reflection, some level of self awareness, and be able to articulate what it is that is making them feel as though they are being attacked. If it is not a valid feeling, then how do we stop doing what you admit is not happening? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/696 "2018-05-11T17:08:09Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > If a random white person and a random black person are walking down the same street, the white person has better statistical grounds to be afraid than the black person. True or false? I don’t know off the top of my head, that’s not part what I looked at. The specific numbers I looked at (and then made assertions based on) would apply to any broad, nationwide beliefs about danger, in general, from being killed by someone from another race. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/697 "2018-05-11T17:09:29Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Nailed it in one. Why didn’t I think of that? Okay, I guess it’s just laziness, or you don’t actually know of anything I said that’s incorrect. If you want to prove me wrong, you’ll have to actually quote one of my posts and point to the exact words that I posted that were incorrect. Otherwise, apparently you don’t have a problem with any of my assertions. It’s really kind of pathetic. I asked you, even begged you, to tell me what I said that was wrong, and you still haven’t done it. Why not? And why am I still trying to get you to tell me? It’s becoming pretty obvious you don’t actually have anything. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/698 "2018-05-11T17:09:51Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > EE, maybe you would be the best person to explain to Andy why he is wrong. Probably not; I think he’s right. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/699 "2018-05-11T17:10:01Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Whether or not they are attacked, they will feel as though they are. So, what is the solution? Continue to not attack them, and let them feel as though they are anyway, or try to get them to show some level of self reflection, some level of self awareness, and be able to articulate what it is that is making them feel as though they are being attacked. > > If it is not a valid feeling, then how do we stop doing what you admit is not happening? So you’re going to seriously argue the NPR interview, the tweets I posted, the podcast I cited, were not attacks on white men as a group? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/700 "2018-05-11T17:10:05Z")
Maybe. When a white man buys a gun to protect his home and family from invaders, what color are the invaders that he imagines? This is not by way of an assertion, there is no data. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/701 "2018-05-11T17:11:32Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So party loyalty is more important to you than doing the right thing? Interesting. I didn’t say anything about what I will or won’t do in that post. I’m already doing the right thing, IMHO. This is your intra-party squabble, and I hope you guys make the choice that hurts your party the most, because I think that will be best for the country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566.md?page=36)