# Sneering progressives are driving young white men into the arms of the GOP **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2018, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566 "2018-05-04T09:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/702 "2018-05-11T17:12:41Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I apologize for the aggressive post earlier, when it turns out I was the one who was wrong. Don’t worry about it. No doubt that I’ve been an aggressively wrong goofball once and a while. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/703 "2018-05-11T17:13:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t know off the top of my head, that’s not part what I looked at. The specific numbers I looked at (and then made assertions based on) would apply to any broad, nationwide beliefs about danger, in general, from being killed by someone from another race. Let me ask you this. Do you agree that, race aside, statistically speaking men are more violent and murderous than women? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/704 "2018-05-11T17:15:06Z")
(This one’s gotta work…right?) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/705 "2018-05-11T17:15:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So what? What does this add to the conversation? It helps focus on the actual topic. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/706 "2018-05-11T17:15:40Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I think it makes a huge difference if people chime in saying “I’m a Democrat, and I don’t agree with this language”. What would that even mean? What if I do agree with the language? Should I lie? I will agree that people make the choice to make themselves offended by certain types of words or phrases, but that doesn’t mean that I have to condemn those words and phrases. And when whatever other phrase you come up with to describe the social inequalities that are enjoyed by the majority and suffered by minoirites upsets those who decide to be upset about the subject, do we disown those words as well? It is as if you are ascribing no agency whatsoever to people. As if they will simply hear a word or phrase that they have been conditioned to find objectionable, and will decide to do the worst thing they can think of in order to punish society for allowing them to hear those words. It is easy to play on the negatives. It is easy to bring out the best in people. I’ve seen many conservatives on this board and off that are proud that their party is better at manipulating people by appealing to their basest and lowest fears then the democrats are at appealing to their better natures. It may very well be that you win out in this. That appealing to negatives is more powerful than appealing to positives, but is that really a “win” for you? For me, it just makes me want to try harder to appeal to people’s better natures. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/707 "2018-05-11T17:17:26Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > (This one’s gotta work…right?) Why would I continue to play these weird games with you? I asked you for something simple – quote the post, or the sentence, that you think is incorrect. You’ve been unwilling to do that. It should be a very simple thing, but you’ve continually refused, for reasons I can’t fathom, unless you simply can’t find anything I posted that is incorrect. Sorry. Until you actually tell me the words I posted that you think are incorrect, I’m not going to play your games. If you think I’m wrong, be specific about what I’m wrong about, and show me. Why not just find the post? Shouldn’t be hard, right… or is it? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/708 "2018-05-11T17:18:52Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I didn’t say anything about what I will or won’t do in that post. I’m already doing the right thing, IMHO. This is your intra-party squabble, and I hope you guys make the choice that hurts your party the most, because I think that will be best for the country. Because what’s best for the country is what your party is doing, even though you admittedly agree with the other party’s views and not your own’s on this issue? How does that work? I’m genuinely confused. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/709 "2018-05-11T17:22:08Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > If a random white person and a random black person are walking down the same street, the white person has better statistical grounds to be afraid than the black person. True or false? False. A random person is almost assuredly ignorant of the statistics and the statistics show such minimal risk that knowing them shouldn’t effect their fear level. What do I win? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/710 "2018-05-11T17:22:43Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > So you’re going to seriously argue the NPR interview, the tweets I posted, the podcast I cited, were not attacks on white men as a group? I didn’t feel attacked. None of what was said on the NPR interview or the twitters caused me any harm whatsoever. I didn’t listen to your podcast, so that may have been a hate filled misandrist orgy that would reach out through my speakers and strangle me, but you’ll have to let me know on that. Can you point to the parts of the posts that cuase you the most hurt? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/711 "2018-05-11T17:23:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I didn’t say anything about what I will or won’t do in that post. I’m already doing the right thing, IMHO. This is your intra-party squabble, and I hope you guys make the choice that hurts your party the most, because I think that will be best for the country. They did, way back when they pressed for Civil Rights legislation, and pushed the solid South into the welcoming arms of the Republican Party. You can be justly proud of the Republican refusal to exploit that. If they had. Which they didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/712 "2018-05-11T17:24:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > What would that even mean? What if I do agree with the language? Should I lie? > > I will agree that people make the choice to make themselves offended by certain types of words or phrases, but that doesn’t mean that I have to condemn those words and phrases. > > And when whatever other phrase you come up with to describe the social inequalities that are enjoyed by the majority and suffered by minoirites upsets those who decide to be upset about the subject, do we disown those words as well? > > It is as if you are ascribing no agency whatsoever to people. As if they will simply hear a word or phrase that they have been conditioned to find objectionable, and will decide to do the worst thing they can think of in order to punish society for allowing them to hear those words. > > It is easy to play on the negatives. It is easy to bring out the best in people. I’ve seen many conservatives on this board and off that are proud that their party is better at manipulating people by appealing to their basest and lowest fears then the democrats are at appealing to their better natures. It may very well be that you win out in this. That appealing to negatives is more powerful than appealing to positives, but is that really a “win” for you? For me, it just makes me want to try harder to appeal to people’s better natures. YMMV. None of this applies in the least, because I have consistently decried language that is ethically or factually wrong AND bad politics. Most fundamentally, talking about white males collectively as though they are something you have to scrape off your shoe. That’s wrong, because unlike being a Christian and/or a conservative, it’s something you are born with and cannot change. It’s also politically stupid, because white men still provide so many raw numbers of votes for Democrats, unlike what black people provide for Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/713 "2018-05-11T17:26:01Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > If a random white person and a random black person are walking down the same street, the white person has better statistical grounds to be afraid than the black person. True or false? He has better statistical odds of being killed by[a stray car](https://www.npr.org/2017/03/30/522085503/2016-saw-a-record-increase-in-pedestrian-deaths). ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/714 "2018-05-11T17:28:05Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Most fundamentally, talking about white males collectively as though they are something you have to scrape off your shoe. This is how _you_ choose to feel. It is not how people are talking about it. Show some agency, take some responsibility for when you overreact to any slightest criticism that is not even being directed at you. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/715 "2018-05-11T17:29:20Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > > [@SlackerInc](#): > > > > Maybe in the future we can debate without all the smack talk? > > Not a chance There was supposed to be a smiley face at the end of that post. Anyway, I’m out of this thread. If anyone challenges my logic someone please point them to post #678. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/716 "2018-05-11T17:31:45Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > There was supposed to be a smiley face at the end of that post. > . Oh, that’s cool. Glad to hear it! Peace. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/717 "2018-05-11T17:31:52Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > He has better statistical odds of being killed by[a stray car](https://www.npr.org/2017/03/30/522085503/2016-saw-a-record-increase-in-pedestrian-deaths). Ok, on one sidewalk is a stray car and on the other is a black man. Which sidewalk should I, a handsome and charming white man, choose to walk on using statistical analysis? Eta: also, there’s a lightning storm behind me so I kinda gotta keep moving. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/718 "2018-05-11T17:33:24Z")
Here’s the funny part of this they think we miss. Insult and threaten everyone every day. Consistently lie to one another about what “Liberals think” and our motives. Don’t give a damn about minorities. - Whine and cry about how mean the Liberals are and how they’re the ones being insulted and denigrated and how that will drive everyone away from the Democrats. = Incredible dishonesty and lack of character. So at some point, as I’ve said, Democrats need to stop playing into #2 there, because it isn’t honest, it isn’t real. It’s just more of #1. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/719 "2018-05-11T17:34:09Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Oh, that’s cool. Glad to hear it! > > Peace. Still waiting for that post of mine that you think is wrong. Or, perhaps more likely, you got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/720 "2018-05-11T17:36:45Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Here’s the funny part of this they think we miss. > > Insult and threaten everyone every day. Consistently lie to one another about what “Liberals think” and our motives. Don’t give a damn about minorities. You left out “Complain how the liberals aren’t making an effort to understand us or how we think.” Unironically. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/721 "2018-05-11T17:36:50Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Whine and cry about how mean the Liberals are and how they’re the ones being insulted and denigrated and how that will drive everyone away from the Democrats. > > So at some point, as I’ve said, Democrats need to stop playing into #2 there, because it isn’t honest, it isn’t real. It’s just more of #1. One of the problems I’ve seen is that some moron somewhere tweets something stupid to their 3 or 4 followers, and it’s passed around the conservosphere like it’s some sort of new Liberal position - “Look how dumb and stupid the Liberals are!”. I’ve seen it happen on this very message board. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566.md?page=37)