# Sneering progressives are driving young white men into the arms of the GOP **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2018, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566 "2018-05-04T09:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/101 "2018-05-04T16:18:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The OP wrote a long, thoughtful post and yet some posters’ immediate reaction was to resort to dismissive one-line zingers that prove, rather than disprove, his point. The OP wrote a long post. There may have been one-line zingers directed at it but there were also substantive questions raised about how, if white millennials are indeed defecting to the GOP in droves because they’re being oppressed by progressives or something, how this is something unique to just the last two years. And moreover, evidence was presented that it is not, in fact, happening at all. If you don’t like the original long-term trends I presented in the Pew report from 2016, you can see in the new Pew survey from last March that millennials continue to congregate around the Democratic party more than ever. So your analysis of this discussion is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/102 "2018-05-04T16:24:44Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > So…they are liberals with large followings, and there’s no sign of other liberals taking issue with their framing. But there’s no problem! Okey doke. Large followings? Please. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/103 "2018-05-04T16:29:44Z")
Speaking of sneering, [this Senate candidate](https://apnews.com/469b03649353498db43c227843bf0be4) questioned the “cognitive thought process” of veterans who consider voting for the other party. The Senate candidate is Republican, and the other party is of course the Dems. I see shit like this from the right, about Dems, day in and day out. But I’m sure that that’s drowned out by all the podcasts. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/104 "2018-05-04T16:32:25Z")
People aren’t all good or all evil, Grrr!, with few exceptions. it is perfectly possible to go help people out in an emergency and still be a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/105 "2018-05-04T16:35:03Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Speaking of sneering, [this Senate candidate](https://apnews.com/469b03649353498db43c227843bf0be4) questioned the “cognitive thought process” of veterans who consider voting for the other party. > > The Senate candidate is Republican, and the other party is of course the Dems. > > I see shit like this from the right, about Dems, day in and day out. > > But I’m sure that that’s drowned out by all the podcasts. Jesus, what an asshole: > [@](#): > > The letter from the veterans, all of whom support Vukmir, came a day after Nicholson, in a radio interview, questioned the “cognitive thought process” of Democratic military veterans. Nicholson also said the Democratic Party had “wholesale rejected the Constitution and the values that it was founded upon.” Speaking of mediocre white guys, exhibit A. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/106 "2018-05-04T16:36:03Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Rational people tend to avoid irrational thought. Details at Eleven. :smack: > > Whenever I read an intelligent Doper discuss why _he_ or one of his smart friends isn’t one of the stupid and gullible Trumpistas I think we’re having a failure to communicate. Getting enlightened people to vote Dem is NOT the problem. _ **We need to enlighten the unenlightened.** _ > > I’m not sure how to do that. But whining “Don’t blame us; blame the nasty GOP liars” is NOT the answer. The Dems need to come up with a _positive_ message that appeals to mainstream whites. Why is this so hard to accept? It’s not hard to accept, but in order to come up with a solution one must first correctly identify the problem. As already noted, progressives could all cease to say anything even mildly challenging about their political opposites and it wouldn’t change a damn thing. The Dems absolutely need to come up with a positive message - but they also need a counterstrategy to the negative messages of the other side. In the last election the topic Clinton spoke most about was jobs - a topic which directly related to the white working class - yet the message those voters heard was the one from the GOP: “The Democrats don’t care about you! All they care about are urban criminals and transgendered perverts!”. Part of the problem was certainly that Clinton was a poor (and incredibly uncharismatic) candidate who didn’t focus her attention on the right states, but the full-on campaign of bullshit from the Trump side of the fence (aided, we now know, by the Russian troll brigade) had a lot more to do with the false narrative overwriting the true one. Solutions? I don’t have one, and I don’t have a lot of confidence that the Democrats fully understand the problem, let alone have a solution either. But I’m pretty sure “Let’s stop calling out ignorant assholes for being ignorant assholes” isn’t their top priority, particularly as the ignorant asshole vote isn’t really up for grabs at the moment. The Dems need to focus on the redeemables, not the deplorables, and I’m yet to be convinced anyone claiming to be “driven” to the GOP was ever in the redeemable camp, no matter their weak protestations. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/107 "2018-05-04T16:39:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m yet to be convinced anyone claiming to be “driven” to the GOP was ever in the redeemable camp, no matter their weak protestations. AMEN. I find it rather disingenuous when people say they’ll vote Republican if the Democrats don’t stop insulting them. Because if someone claims they’d vote for the Republicans with all of their fear mongering and racism and negative policies just because they were called ‘racist’ by someone, they were pretty much planning to vote Republican already. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/108 "2018-05-04T17:43:08Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Set aside for a moment your feelings about OP or his diagnosis of this shift in “millenial” sentiment. In the poll result he cites, white male registered voters between the ages of 18 and 34 were asked the question > “If the election for U.S. Congress were held today, would you vote for the Democratic candidate or the Republican candidate for U.S. Congress in your district where you live?” > In 2016 young white men answered this question Democrat over Republican by a whopping 48 to 36 margin. > In 2018 young white men answered this question by preferring Republican over Democrat by a 46 to 37 margin. Almost an exact _reversal_. :eek: > > When I use bold-face or large fonts, Dopers ignore my message and just make sarcastic remarks about font size, so I ask Dopers to use the Zoom feature of their browser and reread that statistic enlarged. > _ **There was 21% shift in favor of the GOP.** _ > In the other thread, a Doper seemed to think this statistical change was “noise.” I know noise; I dealt with noise during my signal processing career. Noise was a friend of mine. _And this 21% shift is not noise._ > > And in 2016, voters were faced with the “normal” backlash against the perceived incumbent party. In 2018 we have the full incompetence of Trump and his party on display. Yet, young white males have lurched sharply toward the GOP. > > And liberal Dopers’ solution? The problem isn’t that progressives are too eager to paint whites as racist or misogynist, but that _they aren’t painted as racist or misogynist enough!_ > > Do Democrats think elections are scored like golf? That success comes from inducing voters to vote against the D’s? I think I’ll start calling it the _ **Masochistic Party** _. Someone is doing some good analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/109 "2018-05-04T18:02:25Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > If every progressive in the world stopped the sneering immediately, they’d still think that Angela Merkel was destroying Germany with pro-Muslim, pro-immigrant policies. They’d still believe in no-go zones in London. No. Geeze. Get your conservative talking points straight. We’d still believe there were no-go zones in _Germany_, because Angela Merkel [admitted it](https://www.apnews.com/438bb0ac98d04459ab2e392f3c4fc5ef). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/110 "2018-05-04T18:10:15Z")
We tend to forget how many people want to think of themselves as open-minded, non-partisan centrists. When the case against one side becomes as strong as it has in recent times, they have to believe that it _isn’t_, that its a partisan exaggeration. That if you set aside the hysterical partisanship of his opponents, Il Douche isn’t really all that bad. Reminds me of Mark Twain talking about people who believe that Truth is a mighty force that will always prevail. That there’s nothing wrong with that except it just ain’t so. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/111 "2018-05-04T18:13:02Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > No. Geeze. Get your conservative talking points straight. We’d still believe there were no-go zones in _Germany_, because Angela Merkel [admitted it](https://www.apnews.com/438bb0ac98d04459ab2e392f3c4fc5ef). How do you define a “no go area”? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/112 "2018-05-04T18:15:11Z")
Define it anyway you like, long as you can prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/113 "2018-05-04T18:16:16Z")
We’ll use Merkel’s rather obvious description: “Areas where nobody dares to go.” ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/114 "2018-05-04T18:17:05Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Someone is doing some good analysis. Well, since this is directly contradicted by [the Pew poll the previous month](http://www.people-press.org/2018/03/01/1-generations-party-identification-midterm-voting-preferences-views-of-trump/), which showed strong support for Democrats among Gen-Xers and milllennials – overwhelmingly so among millennials – I presume that “good analysis” means “results that I like, even though they’re wrong”. Incidentally, I just noticed that I forgot to cite that poll my post #35, so the above is the first link to it. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/115 "2018-05-04T18:22:12Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > We’ll use Merkel’s rather obvious description: “Areas where nobody dares to go.” We have areas like that in America too. In fact there is an app Waze that I believe got some bad press for guiding drivers around just such areas. Having areas where people are afraid to go is a problem anywhere there is poverty and enough people moving about. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/116 "2018-05-04T18:23:11Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > We’ll use Merkel’s rather obvious description: “Areas where nobody dares to go.” Including police? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/117 "2018-05-04T18:24:58Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Including police? Sounds like a policing issue. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/118 "2018-05-04T18:27:36Z")
Well to skip to the point, it sounds like Angela Merkel had no idea how the alt-right uses the term. Sounds to me like she was describing high crime areas where civilians are afraid to go. But here’s how a Fox News expert described it: > [@Steve Emerson](#): > > Well these no go zones exist not only in France, but they exist throughout Europe. They’re sort of amorphous, they’re not contiguous necessarily, but they’re sort of safe havens and they’re places where the governments like France, Britain, Sweden, Germany don’t exercise any sovereignty. So you basically have zones where Shariah courts were set up, where Muslim density is very intense, where the police don’t go in, and where it’s basically a separate country almost, a country within a country. > > … > > In Britain, it’s not just no go zones, there are actual cities like Birmingham that are totally Muslim where non-Muslims just simply don’t go in. And parts of London, there are actually Muslim religious police that actually beat and actually wound seriously anyone who doesn’t dress according to Muslim, religious Muslim attire. So there’s a situation that Western Europe is not dealing with. I’m just curious which definition Ashtura uses, and whether or not he believes Merkel was using the same definition. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/119 "2018-05-04T18:47:14Z")
If there are a bunch more polls that have the same results, and the Democrats lose in 2018, and exit polls show that it was largely because most young white voters voted Republican, then I will certainly reassess and strongly consider that my understanding was very wrong. But one poll isn’t reason to do that, not when the special elections have been so overwhelmingly good for the Democrats, as well as many, many other polls showing that young white voters have a strong preference for the Democrats for Congress. This just seems more of the same third-way, sky-is-falling-because-progressives, white-working-class, etc., that we see in every election. We very occasionally – after '08 and '12 – see some few arguments that maybe the Republicans ought to try and reach out to non-white voters, but this “Democrats must stop being so damn progressive” – meaning ignore the concerns of non-straight white men – is brought out every election. I’m all for reaching out to the concerns of poor and middle class white voters, except when it conflicts with moral policies for others. And for those white voters who don’t want black, brown, Muslim, LGBT, etc., in their communities, there’s no possibility of reaching them without abandoning all those black, brown, etc. voters, which I’m certainly unwilling to do. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/120 "2018-05-04T18:52:06Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Set aside for a moment your feelings about OP or his diagnosis of this shift in “millenial” sentiment. In the poll result he cites, white male registered voters between the ages of 18 and 34 were asked the question > “If the election for U.S. Congress were held today, would you vote for the Democratic candidate or the Republican candidate for U.S. Congress in your district where you live?” > In 2016 young white men answered this question Democrat over Republican by a whopping 48 to 36 margin. > In 2018 young white men answered this question by preferring Republican over Democrat by a 46 to 37 margin. Almost an exact _reversal_. :eek: > > When I use bold-face or large fonts, Dopers ignore my message and just make sarcastic remarks about font size, so I ask Dopers to use the Zoom feature of their browser and reread that statistic enlarged. > _ **There was 21% shift in favor of the GOP.** _ > In the other thread, a Doper seemed to think this statistical change was “noise.” I know noise; I dealt with noise during my signal processing career. Noise was a friend of mine. _And this 21% shift is not noise._ > > And in 2016, voters were faced with the “normal” backlash against the perceived incumbent party. In 2018 we have the full incompetence of Trump and his party on display. Yet, young white males have lurched sharply toward the GOP. > > And liberal Dopers’ solution? The problem isn’t that progressives are too eager to paint whites as racist or misogynist, but that _they aren’t painted as racist or misogynist enough!_ > > Do Democrats think elections are scored like golf? That success comes from inducing voters to vote against the D’s? I think I’ll start calling it the _ **Masochistic Party** _. This statistic doesn’t surprise me. The Republican Party panders to white men. It’s not surprising when some white men decide they like being pandered to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566.md?page=7)