# Sneering progressives are driving young white men into the arms of the GOP **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 4, 2018, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566 "2018-05-04T09:14:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/121 "2018-05-04T18:53:32Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > We’ll use Merkel’s rather obvious description: “Areas where nobody dares to go.” > [@steronz](#): > > Including police? NOBODY. We’re not supposed to analyze her, we’re not supposed to question her, we’re just supposed to take her literally. I first thought maybe nobody dares to go there because it’s so crowded, but I realized that nobody means nobody. Is she talking about the molten core of the earth? The collapsed nuclear testing cave under North Korea? The inside of a white shark’s jaw? Or is “nobody” shorthand, here, for “middle class white Germans”, who are afraid to go into the high-poverty, high crime enclaves in Germany in which many immigrants are ghettoized and don’t have the wherewithal to leave? ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/122 "2018-05-04T19:01:24Z")
For me, it’s a place with high crime rates and little to no police presence. The reason for the lack of police presence is irrelevant. Could be hostile residents, could be the risk isn’t worth it. You don’t go there, or if you do, it’s with a small army. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/123 "2018-05-04T19:07:33Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > … if Democrats were not associated with PC progressivism, we’d be twenty points ahead. … A very different bit than what you started out saying. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > … Just be open to straight white guys being progressive, welcome them into the tent, without expecting them to apologize for their white maleness that they were born with. > > And stop mocking them as a demographic group. … So apparently your prescription is not to clamp down on any mocking, but an argument against the progressive wing of the party having a voice? No longer clear to me what your are arguing or what your actual position is. Is your thesis that the mocking of straight white males for being straight white males (and the demands that we straight white males apologize for our condition) you believe is pervasive is something that newly occurred since first quarter 2016 and is the reason why the online poll showed a switch of white males Millennials? Or it has been there and suddenly started bothering them? Is it possible that this one online poll is capturing a real shift among 18 to 34 year old white male leanings from the first quarter 2016 before an election season and now? Possibly. _If so_ the thesis that an imaginary increase of mocking white straight males and demanding their apologies is the reason is absurd. Is it alternatively possible that there is no sudden shift. More traditional polling at least ([Pew as reported in WaPo](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/03/21/a-bright-spot-for-republicans-among-millennials-young-white-men/?utm_term=.a8a4034a96eb)) demonstrates that yes white male Millennials are moving more to R, but that this happened around the time Obama was elected. > [@](#): > > Fewer than half of young white men say black people face a lot of discrimination. > A quarter of young white men say white men face a lot of discrimination. > Opinions of Barack Obama were much lower among young white men. More than half of white men in this group expressed a favorable opinion of President Trump. > Half of young white men favor building the U.S.-Mexico border wall. Should those whose partisan leans are towards D be most concerned about chasing that demographic? No. Insult them we should not. But going to [the actual Pew report](http://www.people-press.org/2018/03/20/1-trends-in-party-affiliation-among-demographic-groups/) here are some bottom lines: > [@](#): > > Democrats hold a slightly larger edge in leaned party identification over Republicans now than in 2016 or 2015. … The 8-percentage-point Democratic advantage in leaned partisan identification is wider than at any point since 2009, and a statistically significant shift since 2016, when Democrats had a 4-point edge (48% to 44%). … Specific to Millennials - > [@](#): > > … Millennial voters (born 1981 to 1996) have had a Democratic tilt since they first entered adulthood; this advantage has only grown as they have aged. > > Democrats enjoy a 27-percentage-point advantage among Millennial voters (59% are Democrats or lean Democratic, 32% are Republican or lean Republican). In 2014, 53% of Millennial voters were Democrats or leaned Democratic, 37% tilted toward the GOP. … > > … A large majority of Millennial women (70%) identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party, compared with 49% of Millennial men. > > This wide gender gap among Millennial voters is largely attributable to a marked shift among Millennial women. As recently as 2014, the Democratic advantage among Millennial women was a narrower – but still substantial – 21 percentage points, compared with 47 points today. The balance of partisanship among Millennial men was similar in 2014 as it is today (50% Democratic vs. 40% Republican). … Are white males the most likely voters? Should the party try to pander to those who believe that Black Americans don’t face discrimination but white Americans, especially men, do? Just from the partisan RealPolitik perspective, is that a good tactic? I’m a centrist, not a hard progressive, and screw that shit. Recognizing that white male Millennials, in particular those who are undereducated, are in some tough places themselves? Yes. Treat the demographic with respect. Yes. Throw progressive causes and addressing the issues of the rest of the coalition in pursuit of them. No way. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/124 "2018-05-04T19:18:01Z")
Credit to **wolfpup** for sourcing Pew first. And since I am doubleposting - how, **SlackerInc** , do you square this alleged sudden abandonment of the Democratic party to the GOP by white male Millennials with the special election results we’ve seen? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/125 "2018-05-04T19:52:18Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Credit to **wolfpup** for sourcing Pew first. Actually, I cited them on the first page. But hey, who’s counting? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/126 "2018-05-04T20:01:12Z")
Frankly, it’s a little hard to believe you would all be quite so blasé if someone had posted 20 twitters scoffing at the opinions of “mediocre black men”. I do get the difference with “punching down” when it comes to being offended by these comments but you might want to remember every dumb white kid out of high school might not be as enlightened as you and could take offense. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/127 "2018-05-04T20:05:21Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Frankly, it’s a little hard to believe you would all be quite so blasé if someone had posted 20 twitters scoffing at the opinions of “mediocre black men”. I do get the difference with “punching down” when it comes to being offended by these comments but you might want to remember every dumb white kid out of high school might not be as enlightened as you and could take offense. The point (I assume) is that white men can be mediocre and still do pretty well in life. Not true of black men, so I wouldn’t say it’s the same thing at all. Dumb white kids out of high school probably aren’t listing to progressive podcasts or following these twitter accounts. If they are, maybe they’ll learn something and get a little more enlightened. I was once a dumb kid out of high school and I have evolved to the point where I understand what these people are trying to say without getting offended (even when I don’t agree). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/128 "2018-05-04T20:08:13Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Frankly, it’s a little hard to believe you would all be quite so blasé if someone had posted 20 twitters scoffing at the opinions of “mediocre black men”. I do get the difference with “punching down” when it comes to being offended by these comments but you might want to remember every dumb white kid out of high school might not be as enlightened as you and could take offense. There are much, much worse things said on twitter about black men than “mediocre”, with many likes and retweets. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/129 "2018-05-04T20:15:10Z")
Historically, the Democrats were the “pro” party and the Republicans were the “anti” party. But in recent years, the Democrats have become perceived by some as the “anti” party - the anti-white, anti-Christian, anti-men party. Now, before someone cuts in with, “But the Democrats \*aren’t \*an ‘anti’ party” - I’m saying, they are \*perceived \*by some as one. Perception is what drives votes, regardless of reality. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/130 "2018-05-04T20:18:15Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > …every dumb white kid out of high school might not be as enlightened as you and could take offense. Teach your children well. That way, even if they won’t listen to you, they will listen to each other. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/131 "2018-05-04T20:18:45Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Historically, the Democrats were the “pro” party and the Republicans were the “anti” party. But in recent years, the Democrats have become perceived by some as the “anti” party - the anti-white, anti-Christian, anti-men party. > > Now, before someone cuts in with, “But the Democrats \*aren’t \*an ‘anti’ party” - I’m saying, they are \*perceived \*by some as one. Perception is what drives votes, regardless of reality. “anti-gun” too. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/132 "2018-05-04T20:19:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There are much, much worse things said on twitter about black men than “mediocre”, with many likes and retweets. And so what? That also doesn’t matter? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/133 "2018-05-04T20:25:47Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > The point (I assume) is that white men can be mediocre and still do pretty well in life. Not true of black men, so I wouldn’t say it’s the same thing at all. I wasn’t saying “It’s the same thing”. But do you not think that a low income white kid might feel the same way about “mediocre white man” comments as a low income black kid might feel about an “equity hire black man”? Both are saying that he got the job for his skin color. Both are probably never gonna get that lucky. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/134 "2018-05-04T20:34:17Z")
I remember when I first decided to vote for Hillary- it was when I first got called a “libtard”. Oh wait, I just remembered- it doesn’t work that way. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/135 "2018-05-04T20:36:04Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > And so what? That also doesn’t matter? Everything is said on Twitter. Sure, it matters, but that something is said on Twitter tells us nothing at all. Might as well complain about what some guy in a bar said. It doesn’t give us any information about political trends. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/136 "2018-05-04T20:37:15Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Historically, the Democrats were the “pro” party and the Republicans were the “anti” party. But in recent years, the Democrats have become perceived by some as the “anti” party - the anti-white, anti-Christian, anti-men party. > > Now, before someone cuts in with, “But the Democrats \*aren’t \*an ‘anti’ party” - I’m saying, they are \*perceived \*by some as one. Perception is what drives votes, regardless of reality. Differing perceptions of the parties isn’t anything new. A single poll that conflicts with lots of other polls and election results shouldn’t lead anyone to a conclusion about anything. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/137 "2018-05-04T20:40:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Everything is said on Twitter. Sure, it matters, but that something is said on Twitter tells us nothing at all. Might as well complain about what some guy in a bar said. It doesn’t give us any information about political trends. So to be clear, " mediocre white man" and “old white man complaints” are only found in tiny corners of the internet is what you’re saying? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/138 "2018-05-04T20:44:18Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So to be clear, " mediocre white man" and “old white man complaints” are only found in tiny corners of the internet is what you’re saying? I internet is vast, but I don’t run into that kind of language at places I visit. (granted, most of the places people here talk about are foreign to me.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/139 "2018-05-04T20:50:46Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So to be clear, " mediocre white man" and “old white man complaints” are only found in tiny corners of the internet is what you’re saying? I haven’t heard the “mediocre white man” stuff before in my lefty circles, but the “old white men” stuff I’ve heard isn’t an insult in any way, just an accurate description of most American institutions – controlled and lead largely by old white men. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/140 "2018-05-04T20:53:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I haven’t heard the “mediocre white man” stuff before in my lefty circles, but the “old white men” stuff I’ve heard isn’t an insult in any way, just an accurate description of most American institutions – controlled and lead largely by old white men. Is “equity hire” ever an accurate description? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566.md?page=8)