I was talking about clear unambiguous segregation. Water fountains labeled coloured and white. Restaurants refusing to allow black people in or sit at the lunch counter.
It was wretched, brutal and awful. We have changed that, we have progressed from horrible to not really good. We would like to progress further, and we could use your help if you’ve nothing better to do.
And those were times when there was clear racial discrimination. So, calling it white privilege that you got to go to the good schools and got to sit at the lunch counter didn’t make much sense. It was just blatant racist discrimination.
Now that there is not blatant racial discrimination that is as easy and obvious to see as seperate water fountains, it is easy for many to not see that there is still discrimination. That’s where the privilege comes in. We, as white straight guys, have the privilege of being treated as the “norm” as a default, while everyone else has to prove that they deserve to be treated in a normal way.
No that’s where privilege leaves and less than blatant racism comes in. This is plain language. Nicer bathrooms and restaurants are a privilege. Not being hassled by the cops isn’t a privilege.
That problem shouldn’t exist, no, but it does, and as long as it does, then yes, it’s privilege. I am able to drive a nice car in a nice neighborhood without even a subsconscious worry about being stopped for DWB - how is that not a privilege of skin color? Being aware of it, and helping more people (especially police themselves) become aware that disparate treatment based on race (A) exists and (B) is wrong is how the problem will get fixed in fact it’s the only way.
It’s called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Privileges.
I think the problem a lot of people have with the term “white privilege” is that a privilege is something you might not necessarily deserve. You might even be ashamed to have it. You might even have done something wrong in order to get it.
And most people don’t like to be dealt a guilt trip.
It is an advantage that I did not earn, and it is an advantage that is enjoyed by myself, and not those of different skin color.
So, what happens, myself and a person of a minority skin tone both get pulled over. The cop is polite to me, and writes me up for less than I was going. The person who has a distinct visible difference gets hassled.
Now, is it that the cop is a racist? If I claim that, then he goes on the defensive. But, if, rather than blaming the cop, I recognize that society in general treats me different than it does minorities, then I recognize that I am privileged to be among those who are treated with respect for no reason other than our skin color.
It is not something that you even need to do anything about. It is only something that you need to keep in mind before you start criticizing, judging, or offering advice to those who do not share your privilege.
Well sounds like most of that is happening between the ears of the offended. They seem to be taking something very personally that is actually about society at large, and not about them individually at all. I’m not sure what the solution is to that. People are going to continue to have a dialogue about this topic until the phenomenon ceases to exist. So I guess they are going to need to get over it because you don’t change language usage by just demanding it. When has that ever worked? I mean would they rather change places with a black person that actually has to deal with this stuff on a regular basis? Would that be preferable to the offense of having some people use a term that they don’t approve of for a phenomenon that they seem to agree exists at least to some degree?
Perhaps.
Because nobody deserves to get hassled by cops.
Because nobody should be ashamed if they didn’t get hassled by a cop.
And nobody did something wrong because they didn’t get hassled by a cop.
Good insight there.
So instead of calling the cop racist and having him go on the defense, you call the whole of society* racist and have the whole of society go on the defensive. I’m not seeing how that is supposed to be a better strategy.
*or at least white society
What’s yours?
Ok then how do we solve the problem? What is your suggestion if we can’t even describe the phenomenon without causing offense to the unafflicted?
I honestly can’t believe that there are people in this day and age who don’t understand this. It must be willful ignorance.
If they choose to take the observation that there are racial biases in our society as a personal accusation, then that is a choice that they have made. People will always choose to take the things that they don’t want to hear badly. It’s not how you phrase them, it’s that they don’t want to hear them.
Except it’s the “white privilege” crowd that is trying to change the language. It’s a new term being introduced, and a lot of folks are not accepting it. Also, I thought we weren’t supposed to tell people what they should or should not be offended by.
At any rate, telling people to “just get over it” sure sounds like a fun thing to say, and probably makes the person saying it feel good. But it doesn’t change anyone’s mind.
There are many who do understand it, and wish to continue enjoying their privilege - for some, it’s the only privilege they have.
But that’s how language works. It evolves. You can’t just stop that evolution by standing there like Gandalf and slamming your staff into the ground and yelling “You shall not pass!”. People are going to discuss this issue while it remains an issue, which means it seems like it isn’t going to stop any time soon.
What I’m saying is I don’t know what the solution is for those who are personally offended by pointing out a societal problem. That seems like something they need to reflect on. I don’t want anyone to feel offended, but I also want us as a society to address this issue and fix it. How do we do that if we are not allowed to discuss it? Or if we can only use certain terminology that inoculates the unafflicted from having to think about it?
Again I ask, what is the suggestion to solve this then? If we solve the problem with white privilege then we need never use the phrase again. Perhaps if more energy was being put toward solving the problem vs complaining about how the problem is described we’d be a lot closer to that.
Just on a basic linguistic level, “white privilege” would make a lot more sense if whites were say 10% of the population, instead of the outright majority (as they are now) or the clear plurality (as they will be later this century).
New terms are made to describe new (and old) phenomen all of the time. Is it really the resistance that we have decided that the language that we had a decade ago is the language that we will use forever, or is it the concept itself that is being resisted?
I do not tell people not to be offended, I just ask that they think about what it is about the concept that is causing them to be offended, rather than just a knee jerk reaction.
Right, but it is the people with the privilege that are telling those without to “just get over it”. It does make those with privilege to feel good to think that it was entirely upon their own effort that they succeeded, where minorities failed.
On a related note, I am of the opinion that “white privilege” is far more pronounced in some nations where white people are indeed a minority - especially in, say, East or Southeast Asia - than in white-majority nations like the USA and Canada. Far more glaringly present there.