# Sniping pirates - how tough of a shot? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 13, 2009, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937 "2009-04-13T13:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/41 "2009-04-14T05:30:57Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > There is one thing people don’t seem to realize about this. The boat was not an open lifeboat like in Titanic or Lifeboat, it was completely enclosed. Good point. I watched the CNN video posted here, and, yes, I was surprised to see what kind of vessel this lifeboat was. It looked like a submersible, not at all what I’d picture as a lifeboat. > [@](#): > > They apparently had the opportunity to shoot when two of them stuck their heads out and they could see the third through the window of the pilot house. At night. Very short range but still great shooting. So, let me get this straight – all three pirates exposed themselves at the same time, two of them sticking their heads out the windows, while being towed by a US Navy ship full of snipers. Is that the story? Sounds like death by stupidity, but what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/42 "2009-04-14T05:38:45Z")
Have you seen photos of Somalian “irregulars” firing their weapons? We’re talking about people with no military training whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/43 "2009-04-14T05:50:54Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Good point. I watched the CNN video posted here, and, yes, I was surprised to see what kind of vessel this lifeboat was. It looked like a submersible, not at all what I’d picture as a lifeboat. > > So, let me get this straight – all three pirates exposed themselves at the same time, two of them sticking their heads out the windows, while being towed by a US Navy ship full of snipers. Is that the story? Sounds like death by stupidity, but what do I know? [These](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Web_090409-N-0000X-926.jpg) [lifeboat](http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/maersk-alabama-lifeboat-faq/) [pictures](http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090410/NEWS/904100309&Template=photos) make “sticking their heads out the windows” seem like non-trivial tasks. I wonder where the captain and the guy with the AK were standing. One guy did supposedly pop out of a hatch; maybe they others were seen through the windows? Alternately, it’s been proposed that thermal imaging equipment was used – could that (and the bullets too) penetrate the hull material of that lifeboat? ETA: On seeing [the interior](http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090410/NEWS/904100309&Template=photos) (err, link doesn’t work – go to the 2nd one manually), am I the only one who thinks “that’d be one hell of a Disney ride!”? ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/44 "2009-04-14T06:11:30Z")
Thermal imagers don’t work through glass, let alone through walls/bulkheads. Night vision aka starlight scopes will, though. According to most reports, it was hot and they stuck their heads up through the hatches on top. I imagine that the DD could also have had lights on the boat, which would have partially blinded the pirates and provided visibility. Just to reiterate what people have said earlier (the ones who seem to know about guns), the shots likely weren’t terribly difficult. And personally, I don’t think they were using “sniper rifles” nor were they actual snipers, just good CQB shots (normal SEALs). “Snipers” as a military tactic are very limited. It would be much easier and more effective to put a dual .50 cal or something similar on a boat, rather than stationing military snipers. Furthermore, shots from boats, to boats, at long range, on choppy ocean, are seriously tough. Finally, the reason merchantmen aren’t armed is simply because insurance is more expensive. Right now, it’s cheaper to accept the .001% chance of being hijacked than to pay the extra insurance premium for having an armed vessel. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/45 "2009-04-14T11:59:36Z")
Just a quick point about the did they parachute onto the ship or not. Apart from the fact that it would be a very tricky landing for the team,lots of hard metal and sharp pointy things about plus an extremly limited area to land, on and lets face it you dont ship highly trained specialists from god knows where only for them to become ineffective due to a broken ankle or impaled on an antenna… Apart from that the naval types tend to get a bit disgruntled when their Radar arrays are snarled up with peoples chutes and rigging lines,(Or dead bodies)whereas a rendevoued jump into the sea and a pickup is a walk in the park by comparison, plus it allows the ships company to feel all nautical and Yo ho ho and its an excuse to practice some seafaring man on man love with each other,if the U.S.N.wasn’t “dry” no doubt they’d break out the rum while they were at it. And now I’m going to make a run for it in the interests of my own personal safety. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/46 "2009-04-15T13:34:10Z")
FWIW, from the latest issue of _People_ magazine (yes, I know): …a military plane flew over the _Bainbridge_ in the dead of night, and a squad of Navy SEALs parachuted into the Indian Ocean… And incidentally, Commodore William Bainbridge served against the Barbary pirates, so it’s a nice historical irony to have a warship named after him play so prominent a role in the current anti-piracy campaign. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/47 "2009-04-15T18:09:04Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > …snip…So, let me get this straight – all three pirates exposed themselves at the same time, two of them sticking their heads out the windows, while being towed by a US Navy ship full of snipers. Is that the story? Sounds like death by stupidity, but what do I know? [Ghostbusters] Right. That’s bad. Okay. All right. Important safety tip. Thanks, Egon. Everybody put on their Depends and duct tape themselves to the good captain. [/Ghostbusters] ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/48 "2009-04-16T00:13:11Z")
I dont think anyone has yet linked to this relevant Slate explainer article “Open Sea Sniping How hard is it to shoot someone in a lifeboat 100 feet away?” > **[How hard was it for the Navy snipers to shoot the pirates from 100 feet away?](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/04/how-hard-was-it-for-the-navy-snipers-to-shoot-the-pirates-from-100-feet-away.html)** > > Navy snipers killed three Somali pirates who had been holding an American hostage in an 18-foot lifeboat on Sunday. The SEALs fired from a Navy... ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/49 "2009-04-16T01:12:48Z")
> [@scm1001](#): > > I dont think anyone has yet linked to this relevant Slate explainer article “Open Sea Sniping How hard is it to shoot someone in a lifeboat 100 feet away?” > [How hard was it for the Navy snipers to shoot the pirates from 100 feet away?](http://www.slate.com/id/2216031/) This was cool: “(Sniper teams generally count down from five and fire in unison on the T in ‘two.’)” ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/50 "2009-04-16T06:53:18Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > ETA: On seeing [the interior](http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090410/NEWS/904100309&Template=photos) (err, link doesn’t work – go to the 2nd one manually), am I the only one who thinks “that’d be one hell of a Disney ride!”? That is a Disney ride! The recently reopened Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage (a modified version of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea) uses submarines with interiors that look just like that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/51 "2009-04-16T11:20:52Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > One report said that the pirates put a gun to the back of the hostage and that was when the seals took their shot. One thing I always wondered was - could a shot to the head or body cause the victim to clench their fist and thereby pull the trigger and kill the hostage too? How much risk is there of that happening? IANASniper. According to Tom Clancy (Yeah, I know… but what do you expect from me ? I ain’t shot nobody !) it is indeed possible - which is why sharpshooters try to aim for the back of the head/neck, where the cerebellum is. That part of the brain controls muscle activity, so no cerebellum = no spasm. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/52 "2009-04-16T13:40:47Z")
The lifeboats on a cruise ship I sailed on 20 years ago looked similar to that, but they weren’t fully enclosed. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/53 "2009-04-16T15:08:14Z")
> [@Mr.Frink](#): > > Putting snipers on board = bad idea > > These pirates are pretty rich–they can afford some pretty decent weapons…it would just fuel an arms race. The pirates would get some pretty big guns/rocket launchers & if they came under fire–they could sink the ships. Not exactly what they want, but it would make a point. Plus 3 snipers per ship is woefully short. The typical pirate team is made up of at least 15 pirates. > > Also, allowing merchant ships to be armed may sound like a good idea…but think it all the way through. How comfortable & safe would we be if heavily armed merchant ships from various middle-eastern/African nations were allowed to pull into ports in L.A., New York, etc.? Probably not a great idea from a national security standpoint. What weapon bigger than an RPG would pirates be likely to use? And we aren’t talking about bulk carriers armed with 5" guns and CIWS cannons. A sniper with a standard hunting rifle with a range of a mile firing from a stable 20,000 ton cargo ship vs 15 pirates in a bobbing shitbox open motorboat armed with AKs and RPGs with an effective range of only a couple hundred hards? I’m pretty sure I give it to the sniper. Other than cost, how come the shipping companies don’t hire private security guards like one might for a factory or warehouse? I mean that seems like it would be a good business for those Blackwater type companies. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937/54 "2009-04-16T15:25:59Z")
It’s already happening. I know a former Navy SEAL who was just hired by Xe (the former Blackwater) to provide security on cargo ships in that region. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sniping-pirates-how-tough-of-a-shot/492937.md?page=2)