# SNL 12/11, specifically the musical guest **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 12, 2004, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419 "2004-12-12T06:28:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/81 "2004-12-13T13:03:52Z")
> [@Jurph](#): > > **Public Service Announcement the first** : if it’s released on a major label, a marketroid somewhere has determined that there is an audience for it who will pay to hear it, which means that whether you like it or not, it probably has some artistic merit. Argumentum Ad Populum is so effective. It also proves that Bush is smart. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/82 "2004-12-13T13:12:01Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > I’ll think the same thing about the nursery-rhymy space-soundy Syd Barret-led Floyd, **pretty much all hip hop** , and Wagner. Hey, what do you know, I was right. The answer to your internal query is, of course, “yes, people do want to listen to this”, and the answer to the inevitable followup “why?” is that some people have different tastes to you and yet still might not be somehow strangely damaged. It’s not some collective madness, they just like something you don’t. > [@](#): > > The fact is, there’s a lemming quality to any kind of fandom. Embrace your inner lemming, and be happy with it. Oh, probably, in which case you could no doubt stand to cut it out with the superiority crap. Incidentally: > [@You](#): > > I didn’t call anyone lemmings. > [@You also](#): > > I, on the other hand, DO call them lemmings, as you can clearly see by reading my posts above. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/83 "2004-12-13T13:14:55Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > Hey, what do you know, I was right. The answer to your internal query is, of course, “yes, people do want to listen to this”, and the answer to the inevitable followup “why?” is that some people have different tastes to you and yet still might not be somehow strangely damaged. It’s not some collective madness, they just like something you don’t. > > Oh, probably, in which case you could no doubt stand to cut it out with the superiority crap. Incidentally: Jesus fucking christ. You don’t know what SARCASM is, do you? The second comment you quoted was obviously sarcastic, but being a humorless, self-righteous asshole you missed the point entirely. What a fucking moron. News for the lot of you: saying “cut it out with the superiority crap” and your whole explanation of how it’s all subjective is patronizing and superior. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/84 "2004-12-13T13:26:16Z")
I might have bought the Scissors Sister CD were it not for the musical excrescence that is “Comfortably Numb”. It makes me cringe just to think about it. You like it? Fine. Just don’t play it in my hearing. But then I hate The Darkness too. Buncha third-rate Queen wannabes. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/85 "2004-12-13T13:29:34Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Jesus fucking christ. You don’t know what SARCASM is, do you? The second comment you quoted was obviously sarcastic, but being a humorless, self-righteous asshole you missed the point entirely. What a fucking moron. You know, if you’re going to claim you were joking or being sarcastic every time you say something that makes you sound like a tit, it would probably help if you knew what sarcasm was, or for that matter, a joke. I’m also floored by the news that “to each their own” is a patronising, superior position. Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/86 "2004-12-13T13:55:24Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > You know, if you’re going to claim you were joking or being sarcastic every time you say something that makes you sound like a tit, it would probably help if you knew what sarcasm was, or for that matter, a joke. > > I’m also floored by the news that “to each their own” is a patronising, superior position. Who knew? Well, now you know you third-grade-teacher-values espousing hipster snob. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/87 "2004-12-13T14:24:06Z")
Wilco blows. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/88 "2004-12-13T14:24:54Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Wilco blows. You’ve never heard them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/89 "2004-12-13T14:29:08Z")
Yes I have. I heard them on MPR. They sound like Phish without the acid. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/90 "2004-12-13T14:34:19Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Yes I have. I heard them on MPR. They sound like Phish without the acid. Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/91 "2004-12-13T14:41:53Z")
BTW, if you hope to upset me and then “show me” how the posturing hipsters who listen to The White Stripes “feel,” you are welcome to try, but it’s only making me snicker. Wilco is the real deal. BTW, Phish sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/92 "2004-12-13T14:47:46Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Well, now you know you third-grade-teacher-values espousing hipster snob. Indeed, you have certainly taught me a thing or two with your devastating something-or-other. Just to recap, though, in case I’ve missed something: you denounce something as objectively crap, and in consequence accuse everyone who likes it of being lemmings who must only like it to look fashionable. I question this, and it’s me being the snob? I only ask, because it’s rather at odds with what I’d understood by the word “snob”: > [@](#): > > One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect. Since it’s you saying everyone else is stupid for liking music you don’t, I’m having just a little bit of trouble understanding how you see yourself as the crusading anti-pretension hero in this context. Perhaps you could help me out? As far as I can see, this thread has gone roughly thus: **You:** TWS suck and all who like them are approval-seeking lemmings! **Us:** Er, no; we actually quite like them regardless, thanks. **You:** Hah! Snobs! Elitists! **Us:** Er… ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/93 "2004-12-13T14:50:01Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > Indeed, you have certainly taught me a thing or two with your devastating something-or-other. Just to recap, though, in case I’ve missed something: you denounce something as objectively crap, and in consequence accuse everyone who likes it of being lemmings who must only like it to look fashionable. I question this, and it’s me being the snob? I only ask, because it’s rather at odds with what I’d understood by the word “snob”: > > Since it’s you saying everyone else is stupid for liking music you don’t, I’m having just a little bit of trouble understanding how you see yourself as the crusading anti-pretension hero in this context. Perhaps you could help me out? As far as I can see, this thread has gone roughly thus: > > **You:** TWS suck and all who like them are approval-seeking lemmings! > **Us:** Er, no; we actually quite like them regardless, thanks. > **You:** Hah! Snobs! Elitists! > **Us:** Er… Fine, I’m a snob. But I’m an HONEST snob. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/94 "2004-12-13T15:10:13Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Please explain. Similarities between Phish and Wilco include: Similar instrumentation (except I think Wilco has a fiddle). A conscious avoidance of accessible melodies or hooks. Mild attemppts at drollery in lyrics. Endless, aimless modal noodling. > [@](#): > > BTW, Phish sucks. No argument here. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/95 "2004-12-13T15:13:27Z")
I loved _Lemmings!_ It was one of my favorite video games ever. When it first came out, my buds and I stayed up all night playing it, only noticing we had done so when the morning sunlight came streaming through the window signalling that we were all going to have a very sucky Monday at work. I think the White Stripes suck, and I don’t care if any of you agree. As for the Scissor remake of Floyd, I didn’t enjoy it over much but I didn’t need to remove my eardrums over it. _It’s just not that important._ I enjoyed the first performance, but as a combined audio and visual event. I probably would change the station if I heard it on the radio. Opinions and tastes are for each individual. Why get so worked up over what others may or may not like? Especially when we still have such major problems in the world as juvenile unemployment in medical transcriptioning!? _ **Get some perspective!** _ ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/96 "2004-12-13T15:32:05Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Similarities between Phish and Wilco include: > > Similar instrumentation (except I think Wilco has a fiddle). > > A conscious avoidance of accessible melodies or hooks. > > Mild attemppts at drollery in lyrics. > > Endless, aimless modal noodling. > > No argument here. You don’t know what you’re talking about. At least get your insults accurate. Say Wilco is warmed over Eagles, not Phish. Say that their lyrics are obscure and pretentious. Say that their last two albums have been self-indulgent bombast. Sneer at their tribute album of Woody Guthrie songs as leftist posturing. Ridicule their whole blistering sincerity gimmick as second-rate Bruce Springsteen buried under layers of Pink Floyd affect. Grouse that their melodies are obscure, the songs beatless and undanceable. Finally, if you’re out of weapons, remind us that frontman Jeff Tweedy has _published a book of bad poetry_ and walk away laughing. You’d still be wrong, IMHO, but you’d be more on target with your criticism. ---
**Author:** ![Wonko\_The\_Sane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@Wonko\_The\_Sane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wonko_The_Sane)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/97 "2004-12-13T19:22:45Z")
I followed the link, and saw the video. I laughed, and not with them. I was reminded of what happens when something really awful happens to your stereo, but you keep using it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/98 "2004-12-13T20:29:56Z")
**cricetus** : You’re being an ass. You dive bomb this thread with all kinds of comments about what music does and doesn’t ‘suck’, and ascribing lemming-like motivations to anyone who disagrees with you. Then when we simply disagree, you start throwing around the accusation that WE are the musical snobs. Look in a mirror, pal. And for the record, I think Wilco is great, and YHF is one of the best albums of the last couple of years. And even though I don’t agree with their politics even remotely, I think the **Mermaid Avenue** discs are just brilliant. Those CDs are in constant rotation in my changer. However, the White Stripes are better. Oh, and there’s plenty of hip-hop worth listening to. I’m listing to _The Eminem Show_ right now, and it’s tremendous. Open your eyes, stop being so damned judgemental, and understand that just because YOU don’t like something doesn’t mean that it’s worthless. And you might actually take the time to educate yourself before saying stupid things like, “All the White Stripes music sounds the same”. I guess the blues all sound the same to you too, right? All that 12 bar nonsense, and all… ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/99 "2004-12-13T21:07:29Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Bwahaha. > > Ecstasy, speed, ketamine, DMT, PCP, MDA, GHB, mescaline… they’re all rave drugs, round these parts. More and more tweakers, though. Around here, the ravers doing ecstasy and other psychedelic drugs outnumber the crack smokers by about 100 to 1. As a matter of fact, I can’t recall ever seeing anyone smoking crank at a rave. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419/100 "2004-12-13T21:37:31Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > **cricetus** : You’re being an ass. You dive bomb this thread with all kinds of comments about what music does and doesn’t ‘suck’, and ascribing lemming-like motivations to anyone who disagrees with you. Then when we simply disagree, you start throwing around the accusation that WE are the musical snobs. Look in a mirror, pal. Gee, the thread was about how soime band sucks, and I went and sullied it by saying that some bands suck. If nothing else, it’s a valuable lesson that whenever someone bitches that some band sucks, there’s someone out there who thinks their favorite band sucks, too. > [@](#): > > And for the record, I think Wilco is great, and YHF is one of the best albums of the last couple of years. And even though I don’t agree with their politics even remotely, I think the **Mermaid Avenue** discs are just brilliant. Those CDs are in constant rotation in my changer. > > However, the White Stripes are better. I’m sure it is. I really like that one song where they play the same blues riff 40 times. The 28th time they do it, it is so rad. If you think the politics of Woody Guthrie are wrong, and like the Stripes better than Wilco, I know exactly the kind of Bush-backing frat boy poser you are. You’re the ones showing up at Gillian Welch concerts and ruining them for her real fans. Keep your White Stripes and leave the real bands alone, you posturing pseudo-alt-country frat boy poseur. > [@](#): > > Oh, and there’s plenty of hip-hop worth listening to. I’m listing to _The Eminem Show_ right now, and it’s tremendous. Oooh. Really? Does he say bad words? I bet it rawks. He’s so naughty. > [@](#): > > Open your eyes, stop being so damned judgemental, and understand that just because YOU don’t like something doesn’t mean that it’s worthless. And you might actually take the time to educate yourself before saying stupid things like, “All the White Stripes music sounds the same”. I guess the blues all sound the same to you too, right? All that 12 bar nonsense, and all… The White Stripes play blues riffs. That spinning sound you hear is coming from the grave of Robert Johnson. I hope his ghost kicks your ass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snl-12-11-specifically-the-musical-guest/279419.md?page=6)