# Snoopy and the Red Baron **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 23, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711 "2013-03-23T03:54:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hottius\_Maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hottius\_Maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hottius_Maximus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/21 "2013-03-25T01:58:52Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Ah, but do you remember the sequel? šŸ˜‰ > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDu95lVe74c](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDu95lVe74c) I thought you were talking about ā€œChristmas Bells.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/22 "2013-03-25T07:53:33Z")
> [@D18](#): > > Old fart checking in here. In the 60s when I was growing up, the WW I aces were still very much cool. I remember reading stories about their dogfights and my friends and I all knew the various planes they flew. So I suspect that it was much more a part of the times than can be imagined now. I hadnā€™t thought of it until I read ur question In fact, I seem to remember (yeah, yeah) that Schulz said at one point he chose to put Snoopy in a Sopwith Camel because one of his sons had just built a model of that planeā€¦ plus he liked the name. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/23 "2013-03-25T11:54:26Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > My dad gave me two books at Christmas 1965: one was _Stories of the Great War_, and the other _Air Aces of WWI_. I still have a copy of ā€œFlying Aces of World War Iā€ [Flying Aces of World War I - Gene Gurney - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?ei=XTpQUcjMEYXF4APClIHIDg&id=R3UKAQAAMAAJ&dq=Air+Aces+of+WWI) somewhere, which I enjoyed very much as a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/24 "2013-03-25T12:06:18Z")
[Old Rhinebeck](http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=59&Itemid=55) started doing its shows in 1960. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/25 "2013-03-25T13:17:06Z")
> [@flodnak](#): > > In fact, I seem to remember (yeah, yeah) that Schulz said at one point he chose to put Snoopy in a Sopwith Camel because one of his sons had just built a model of that planeā€¦ plus he liked the name. I remember seeing an interview with Schulz where he said his son Monte came into his studio to show him the model Sopwith Camel plane he had just finished. They were talking when Charles got the inspiration to put Snoopy in goggles and helmet on his doghouse. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/26 "2013-03-25T18:06:37Z")
> [@Noodles\_Fellicini](#): > > Please tell me Iā€™m not the only one that hears The Royal Guardsman singing, ā€œTen, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty or moreā€¦ā€ when they see this thread? _Achtung! Jetzt wir singen zusammen die Geschichte Ć¼ber den Schweinkƶpfigen Hund und den lieben Red Baron!_ [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/U2Mkf1fUTAk/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AG-AoAC8AGKAgwIABABGGUgZShlMA8=&rs=AOn4CLAokVBIQIRYBjgpn2airfUfad-IMQ "Snoopy vs. the Red Baron") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Mkf1fUTAk) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/27 "2013-03-25T18:22:56Z")
I also got this boardgame for Christmas, probably in 1965. I spent HOURS playing it: [http://www.odinartcollectables.com/images/dogfight1.jpg](http://www.odinartcollectables.com/images/dogfight1.jpg) I had the Sopwith Camel model, too: [http://www.ipmsusa3.org/gallery/d/287282-1/Sopwith\_Camel\_Revell\_4419\_28th.JPG](http://www.ipmsusa3.org/gallery/d/287282-1/Sopwith_Camel_Revell_4419_28th.JPG) The last time I was at the Ontario Science Centre, the IMAX movie was _Flight_, and they had a full-scale Sopwith hanging from the ceiling. It was a beautiful, beautiful airplane! During WWI, the Camel was the _ne plus ultra_ if you were an Allied fighter pilot; there were some more compact versions, the Snipe and the Pup, but the Camelā€¦ The rotary engine gave it so much torque that an experienced pilot could make it dance in a dogfight (just like the Red Baronā€™s Fokker Triplane\*). It made sense that Snoopy would fly a Camel, rather than a Neiuport or a Spad. It just wouldnā€™t have been the same. Apparently, Canadian pilot Roy Brown was flying a Camel the day he shot von Richthofen down, too. \*As an aside, Tom Clancy refers to it as a ā€œFokker Trimotorā€ in one of his novels. An unforgivable error bordering on sacrilege! ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/28 "2013-03-25T18:39:28Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I remember seeing an interview with Schulz where he said his son Monte came into his studio to show him the model Sopwith Camel plane he had just finished. They were talking when Charles got the inspiration to put Snoopy in goggles and helmet on his doghouse. Yep. Another source for this is _**[Peanuts Jubilee](http://www.amazon.com/Peanuts-Jubilee-Charlie-Brown-Others/dp/0030150817)**_. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/29 "2013-03-25T19:37:59Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > \*As an aside, Tom Clancy refers to it as a ā€œFokker Trimotorā€ in one of his novels. An unforgivable error bordering on sacrilege! Well,it said it right there in the tech manual he was copying, goddammit. ---
**Author:** ![Hottius\_Maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hottius\_Maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hottius_Maximus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/30 "2013-03-26T00:27:41Z")
Hey everybody, this is a separate question but we can address it here: why was this particular plane called a ā€œSopwith Camelā€ anyhow? Was Mr. Sopwith the designer of it? Did it not need to use much water? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/31 "2013-03-26T00:31:56Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#): > > Hey everybody, this is a separate question but we can address it here: why was this particular plane called a ā€œSopwith Camelā€ anyhow? Was Mr. Sopwith the designer of it? Did it not need to use much water? It was called the Camel because the machine guns were mounted in a ā€œhumpā€ between the pilot and the engine. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/32 "2013-03-26T01:09:16Z")
And it was built by the Sopwith Aviation Company, which was founded by Thomas Sopwith. The Camelā€™s designer was Herbert Smith, who was chief engineer for the company. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/33 "2013-03-26T02:31:33Z")
Iā€™ve mentioned this here before, Iā€™m sure, but every time I watch _Itā€™s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown_ (every Halloween, like clockwork) Iā€™m struck by the fact that it represents a last vestigial pop-cultural memory of World War I. Of course, that special debuted, in the year of our Lord and of my birth 1966, when World War I veterans were scarcely above retirement age. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/34 "2013-03-26T03:43:37Z")
You know, there just might be a bit of Fridge Brilliance in here. The pilot that some believe to have shot Baron Manfred von Richthofen down in the final battle was surnamed Brown. Well, isnā€™t that technically Snoopyā€™s last name? šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/35 "2013-03-26T16:37:33Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > _Achtung! Jetzt wir singen zusammen die Geschichte Ć¼ber den Schweinkƶpfigen Hund und den lieben Red Baron!_ > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Mkf1fUTAk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Mkf1fUTAk) Hey, my decades old German is still sufficient to translate that ā€œAttention! Now we will sing together the story of the pig-headed dog and our beloved Red Baron!ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/36 "2013-03-26T16:41:28Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > You know, there just might be a bit of Fridge Brilliance in here. > > The pilot that some believe to have shot Baron Manfred von Richthofen down in the final battle was surnamed Brown. > > Well, isnā€™t that technically Snoopyā€™s last name? šŸ™‚ Yeah, I noticed that as a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/37 "2013-03-26T16:55:33Z")
> [@Sal\_Ammoniac](#): > > Iā€™ve mentioned this here before, Iā€™m sure, but every time I watch _Itā€™s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown_ (every Halloween, like clockwork) Iā€™m struck by the fact that it represents a last vestigial pop-cultural memory of World War I. Of course, that special debuted, in the year of our Lord and of my birth 1966, when World War I veterans were scarcely above retirement age. That is an interesting point. Somewhere I read ā€œOld people today are defective - when I was a boy, old people talked about World War One and the Great Depression, but now all old people talk about is Vietnam and Woodstock.ā€ My understanding is WWI is still a part of UK pop culture (which makes sense - it was a much bigger deal for the UK than for the States). ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/38 "2013-03-26T16:56:20Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > Snoopyā€™s debut as the WWI Flying Ace came only months after DC comics introduced a serious [WWI Flying Ace](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_Ace) character loosely based on the real Red Baron. And, as a child of the 60ā€™s, I remember an episode of _Jonny Quest_ had Race Bannon dogfighting with an old German ace in old WWI airplanes. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/39 "2013-03-26T21:45:37Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > And, as a child of the 60ā€™s, I remember an episode of _Jonny Quest_ had Race Bannon dogfighting with an old German ace in old WWI airplanes. Starts here at 25:19.\* https://www.youtube.com/embed/o0Qz6C_DDPI?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=PLl4j4R6GxEi5cLyfUojC58LJlsiAmVdX2 \*Why do all German, uhm, war veterans retire to South America? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711/40 "2013-03-26T22:08:53Z")
\*\*Did the von Richthofen family resent the Snoopy cartoons? Did they ask for them to be discontinued?\*\* [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snoopy-and-the-red-baron/653711.md?page=3)