# Snopes's Evil Twin
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [July 11, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598 "2003-07-11T00:40:05Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/1 "2003-07-11T00:40:05Z")
Reading the link to CBN’s website provided in the [Pat Robertson/Liberia](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=196713) Pit thread, I began browsing what Pat’s promoting these days. Apparently his tame college’s law school has released an exposé of how gay groups are marketing the idea that homosexuals have rights too. (From his POV, this is an evil thing to be stopped.)
A review of the law school article on the Traditional Values Coalition looked like it was worth perusing, so I surfed over there. And lo and behold, Lou Sheldon has now set up his own site “debunking urban legends” – specifically ones about homosexuality.
I give you the [Homosexual Urban Legends Series](http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/) for your reading “pleasure.”
Words cannot express my disgust at the twisting of facts and slanting of stories of this site.
[fixed link]
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### Author:  [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/2 "2003-07-11T01:22:12Z")
I’d ask you to fix your link, but I’m not really sure I want you to.
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### Author:  [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/3 "2003-07-11T01:22:15Z")
Never in my life have I seen such a flagrant misuse of the term “fact-based”.
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### Author:  [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/4 "2003-07-11T01:29:39Z")
In the interests of fighting ignorance, could anyone cite some sources which refute the claims put forward by that link?
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### Author:  [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/5 "2003-07-11T01:31:38Z")
So I copied the link, opened a new window, and pasted it in. I… They…
There are no words. There just aren’t.
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/6 "2003-07-11T01:41:44Z")
Damn, they sure played with the numbers, didn’t they?
> [@](#):
>
> Pedophiles are invariably males: Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men.
>
> Significant numbers of victims are males: Up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys (as opposed to girls).
>
> The 10 percent fallacy: Studies indicate that, contrary to the inaccurate but widely accepted claims of sex researcher Alfred Kinsey, homosexuals comprise between 1 to 3 percent of the population.
>
> Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.
[http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/one-a.php](http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/one-a.php)
:rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/7 "2003-07-11T02:02:29Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Pedophiles are invariably males: Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men.
Crimes _in general_ are overwhelmingly committed by males. I have no idea what the hell this is supposed to prove.
> [@](#):
>
> Significant numbers of victims are males: Up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys (as opposed to girls).
Pedophiles are in categories of their own, there’s no logical reason to compare them with consensual adult activity.
You could just as easily call a man who molests a young girl a “heterosexual pedophile” as you could label one that molests boys a “homosexual pedophile”.
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### Author:  [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/8 "2003-07-11T02:06:58Z")
Well, if I was looking for a way to kill my appetite for just about anything, that is the website to visit.
_sigh_
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### Author:  [@tanookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanookie)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/9 "2003-07-11T02:17:36Z")
Wow that’s scary. I wouldn’t even know where to begin as I don’t know which of their ‘facts’ disturb me the most.
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### Author:  [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/10 "2003-07-11T02:20:20Z")
They do have one fact right: The gay population has never, since Kinsey, been scientifically placed as high as 10%. I think the highest any reasonable study placed was 8%, whereas I normally guess around 5%. The simple fact is we won’t know until it doesn’t matter. So long as being gay continues to have a stigma attached, we won’t get accurate figures from polls. People will just lie, to themselves and to the pollster.
As Blalron points out, pedophiles have been traced as an orientation unto themselves, and yes the vast majority are males. Gender is secondary to them, because prepubescents don’t have secondary sexual characteristics yet. All the evident differences are small. Thus, we must think instead of opportunities.
I believe I read somewhere that the most likely target for pre-pubescent molestation is a young female being molested by a family member (father, uncle, brother…). Why? Because the family members have power and opportunity. Leaping further (just by my own logic, not citing anyone here), female children in this society could be viewed as less likely to tell, more likely to be shamed into silence. If we think outside the family, one runs into gender lines almost immediately.
Since we assume, based on current data, that most pedophiles will be male, they are not going to have easy access to female children outside their families. However there are many roles which can give a relative male stranger access and power over male children. Scout master is one example, as is camp counselor, and less obvious ones will present themselves as we consider the topic. It also works when applied to the true pedophile priests, but there we must also drag in the incidents of _ephebophilia_, which is a different issue completely. Pedophiles have very little interest in those developing seconday sexual characteristics.
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### Author:  [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/11 "2003-07-11T02:25:10Z")
Oops. Need to clear some word choice up…
relative male stranger = a male who is somewhat foreign to the child and his/her family
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### Author:  [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/12 "2003-07-11T02:26:41Z")
Hey, that site is incomplete! They don’t seem to have anything debunking the urban legend that religious fundamentalists were responsible for 9/11, instead of homosexuals and the ACLU. I’m surprised that Pat Robertson’s people would even link to a site with such little credibility.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/13 "2003-07-11T02:26:57Z")
Wasn’t Kinsey’s 10% including everybody who had any sort of homosexual experience, even just once, and not just the ones we think of as solidly gay or bisexual? Or was that number closer to 20%? It’s been a few decades since I read it.
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### Author:  [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/14 "2003-07-11T02:31:56Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by dropzone \*
> \*\*Wasn’t Kinsey’s 10% including everybody who had any sort of homosexual experience, even just once, and not just the ones we think of as solidly gay or bisexual? Or was that number closer to 20%? It’s been a few decades since I read it. \*\*
I believe (don’t quote me here, because sometimes my memory goes kaput) Kinsey’s study wasn’t exactly the problem. He didn’t take the figures any further than what portion of the population fell where on his scale. However, when he released the study, media sources started adding up all they could for sensationalism and the figure of 10% stuck.
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### Author:  [@LilyoftheValley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheValley)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/15 "2003-07-11T02:31:56Z")
This is so outrageous that I don’t even know what to say. There is no logic to it.
“Here, let me cite a story about a man who molested boys. See? It’s all the homosexuals!” [This from the “EXPOSED: Homosexual Child Molesters” page] Duh! Man molesting boy does not equal homosexual, unless “Mr.” Robertson believes that he as a heterosexual could molest girls. (Maybe that’s his issue??)
I don’t even want to get into the “There is no verifiable evidence that same-sex attraction is genetically determined. If same-sex attraction were genetically determined, identical twins would always have the same sexual attraction pattern.” Huh? Show me one identical twin study that is 100% correlation for something that is self-reported and so influenced by the hatred of society. And anyway, why would ‘it’s not 100% genetic’ mean that there’s no genetic influence?? Tell people who are genetically predisposed to have a high risk of cancer that it’s their own doing if they get cancer, after all, cancer is not 100% genetically predetermined! Go to counseling, and cure your cancer. :rolleyes:
I feel sick now. ☹
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### Author:  [@tanookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanookie)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/16 "2003-07-11T02:38:21Z")
Um… I didn’t want to hijack the thread but I couldn’t find ephebophilia in my dictionary. I found ephebic that had the enlightening definition of ‘pertaining to the stages of adult orgasm’ but that really wasn’t terribly helpful.
And speaking as a female child who was molested by her father… Until the Fells Acres (sp) Day Care Case I didn’t realize that what my father was doing to me wasn’t something all daddies did to their little girls. It took me a long time to break away too because of the power he wielded as my father and the shame he inflicted upon me.
One thing about adult females molesting underage males. This tends to have a different connotation (at least in American society) and I’m sure it is even more difficult for boys who have been taken advantage of by women to come forward. There is the fallacy that men cannot be raped by women and the ridicule of being ‘beaten by a girl’ and the idea that the boy should be thankful for having that “Mrs Robinson” kind of fantasy come true.
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### Author:  [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/17 "2003-07-11T02:46:37Z")
This made me laugh:
> [@](#):
>
> 73% of homosexuals surveyed had at some time had sex with boys sixteen to nineteen years of age or younger
What?!? Teenaged gays are having sex?!? Stop the presses. Heterosexual teens **never** have sex! Well, okay, some of them do, but hardly any. Really.
I don’t think there are enough :rolleyes: in existence to adequately respond to the unimpeachable logic to be found at this site.
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### Author:  [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/18 "2003-07-11T02:52:28Z")
**tanookie** , ephebophilia is generally taken to mean “attraction to pubescent children”. Hence those in the grey area of not physically children, but not legally adults. Because they are not legally adults, those prosecuted for molesting them are often lumped in as pedophiles. Does that make their actions more excusable? Hardly. It just makes them a category to be handled differently than a true pedophile.
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### Author:  [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/19 "2003-07-11T02:53:01Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Pedophiles are invariably males: Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men.
The statistics I have found do support the above statement, but also, the vast majority of men do not commit sex crimes.
> [@](#):
>
> Significant numbers of victims are males: Up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys (as opposed to girls).
The [Department of Justice](http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/saycrle.pdf) might disagree. (NOTE: PDF FILE) According to DoJ statistics, 69% of sexual offense victims under the age of 6 are female, and that percentage rises as sex offense victims get older. 82% of all sexual offenses committed against juveniles age 18 and under are committed against females.
> [@](#):
>
> The 10 percent fallacy: Studies indicate that, contrary to the inaccurate but widely accepted claims of sex researcher Alfred Kinsey, homosexuals comprise between 1 to 3 percent of the population.
Why does it matter what percent of the population is homosexual? What does that have to do with pedophilia?
> [@](#):
>
> Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.
However, can someone say again that the vast majority of homosexuals are not child sex offenders? Going by the United States, even if you take 1-3% of the population over the age of 15 as of 2000 to be homosexual, that would give a conservative estimate of roughly 2.2 million homosexuals in the US. ([http://factfinder.census.gov](http://factfinder.census.gov) states the US population 15 & over as of 2000 to be 221,148,671.) Just to get a simple majority of homosexuals as child sex offenders, you’d have to have over 1.1 million homosexuals who have committed child sex offenses. Color me skeptical there.
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by Priam_
> I believe I read somewhere that the most likely target for pre-pubescent molestation is a young female being molested by a family member (father, uncle, brother…).
Again citing the DoJ statistics above, for victims under age 6, that is true, but just barely. For most victims under age 12, the molester is most frequently a non-family acquaintance, but the combination of family members and acquaintances is responsible for over 95% of sexual crimes committed against children under the age of 12.
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### Author:  [@Ryle\_Dup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryle_Dup)
#### Post date: [July 11, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snopess-evil-twin/187598/20 "2003-07-11T03:16:15Z")
I love this quote
> [@](#):
>
> However, **statistics** indicate that homosexuals pose a far more serious threat to children than do heterosexuals.
:rolleyes:
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