# snother stupid self-inflicted Clinton wound: Bill & Loretta meeting **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 1, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867 "2016-07-01T15:06:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/61 "2016-07-02T04:12:39Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Hillary’s campaign HQ is in the same Brooklyn building as Lynch’s law offices. If Lynch and Bill wanted to do something nefarious, they could have just ridden an elevator to each other’s offices. Yeah…but it’s a bit difficult to get a blowjob in an elevator. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/62 "2016-07-02T04:20:52Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Yeah…but it’s a bit difficult to get a blowjob in an elevator. You ask the other person:“Going down?” ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/63 "2016-07-02T05:37:45Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > For 25 years, I’ve been noting that Bill Clinton’s stats in Dungeons & Dragons would be: > > Intelligence: 18 > Charisma: 21 > Wisdom: 3 That’s hilarious. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/64 "2016-07-02T13:29:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This is absurd. > > If President Clinton wanted to get a surreptitious word in the ear of the AG, he’s got fifty ways less visible than a public meeting on the tarmac. > > Nothing here but unfounded speculation. It is speculation but absurd and unfounded? I don’t think so. As a lawyer you do not see the clear appearance of impropriety here? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/65 "2016-07-02T14:09:14Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > That link doesn’t take me to a story. That’s a remarkably lazy OP. The link takes me to the story, but the story is displayed in some sort of X-able window. If you click the X reflexively (as I sometimes do) the story disappears and you get the USA Today News Home-page. … Perhaps some automatic pop-up blockers will “X” the window-with-the-story away as a courtesy before you even see it. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/66 "2016-07-02T14:24:19Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It is speculation but absurd and unfounded? I don’t think so. … Oh sure it is. Is Bill Clinton dumb enough to let his reflexive gladhandling not get constrained by an awareness of optics? Apparently so. Dumb enough that if he actually _was_ engaged in some secret behind the scenes discussions and influencing that he wouldn’t do it, well, in secret and behind the scenes? No. WJ Clinton is a very charismatic highly intelligent excellent communicator and seller of ideas. And he is a doofus goofball in many ways. Impulse control has never been his strongest suit is all I am sayin’ … HR Clinton OTOH is likely even more intelligent and is all about the impulse control, but has none of his charisma and communications gifts. I think there’s some ying-yang there. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/67 "2016-07-02T14:45:41Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Oh sure it is. Well, it seems only die hard Clinton apologists think this is much ado about nothing. I am hard pressed to find any member of congress (on either side) who are defending this. Even assuming, for the sake of argument, that they only talked about their grandkids there is pretty much universal (except here) agreement that the “optics” of this look really bad. And the optics look bad precisely because the opportunity here for improper discussions about a serious legal matter that affects the whole country are in play. This is not about a parking ticket. They are both lawyers and very smart people. They were almost certainly fully aware of all of these issues yet somehow thought a friendly chit-chat about their families was a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/68 "2016-07-02T14:51:27Z")
So Bricker is a die hard Clinton apologist? I didn’t know that. Yes, its bad optics but hardly a reason to throw the FBI off the case and assign a special prosecutor. The FBI guys will undoubtedly do a very thorough all t’s crossed report. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/69 "2016-07-02T15:00:18Z")
But in the meantime, it’s off to the fainting couches! How many more months of this shit do we have? A hundred or so? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/70 "2016-07-02T15:14:11Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So Bricker is a die hard Clinton apologist? I didn’t know that. > > Yes, its bad optics but hardly a reason to throw the FBI off the case and assign a special prosecutor. The FBI guys will undoubtedly do a very thorough all t’s crossed report. You have to consider why the optics are bad. Federal judges have an ethical mandate to avoid even the [appearance of impropriety.](http://www.uscourts.gov/judges-judgeships/code-conduct-united-states-judges#c) I do not know if this mandate extends to attorneys I am willing to bet Bricker and Clinton and Lynch are fully aware of it and understand its importance. Only Bricker can tell us why he thinks this meeting between Lynch and Clinton should be hand-waved away. As for the FBI I agree they will do a thorough job. But this issue has nothing to do with that. Lynch can completely ignore the FBI recommendation or pursue a lesser charge than the FBI recommends (as Eric Holder did with General Petraeus as an example). So yeah, that’s why the optics are bad here. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/71 "2016-07-02T15:23:14Z")
I thought that during her confirmation hearings she specifically said she wouldn’t do the same as Holder and she’s basically said the same in response to this brouhaha. I think any real outrage should be saved for when/if she reneges on that. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/72 "2016-07-02T16:05:08Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I thought that during her confirmation hearings she specifically said she wouldn’t do the same as Holder and she’s basically said the same in response to this brouhaha. I think any real outrage should be saved for when/if she reneges on that. If only we could hold our political figures to the promises they made… :rolleyes: And the only reason she made the concession over this brouhaha is because she stepped into this brouhaha (of her own accord and when she should have known better). Some are suggesting Lynch is already walking this back: > [@](#): > > Attorney General Loretta Lynch said Friday that she will take a step back from the decision whether to charge anyone in the Hillary Clinton private email server probe. But a Justice Department spokeswoman quickly clarified her remarks, telling Yahoo News that top political appointees will remain involved in the investigation and that the attorney general will be “the ultimate decider.” > > SOURCE: [Justice Department clarifies Lynch remarks about Clinton email probe: ‘The AG is the ultimate decider’](https://www.yahoo.com/news/lynch-taking-step-back-clinton-000000134.html) ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/73 "2016-07-02T17:35:45Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > But in the meantime, it’s off to the fainting couches! > > How many more months of this shit do we have? A hundred or so? 4 months to the election an then 8 years of the Clinton presidency so, yes, 100 months exactly.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/74 "2016-07-02T18:57:43Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Well, it seems only die hard Clinton apologists think this is much ado about nothing. I’m seeing a lot of die-hard Clinton apologists (including me in a post in this very thread, quoted below) who are NOT saying this is much ado about nothing. There are TWO issues, here: 1. Did Bill Clinton, by entering Lynch’s plane or during that visit, commit an act that compromises the Justice investigation? and 1. Did Bill Clinton, by entering Lynch’s plane, commit an act of stupidity by giving the right endless fodder for idiotic speculation? Many die-hard Clinton supporters are answering “no” to 1 and a resounding “yes” to 2. > [@Sherrerd](#): > > IThe meeting should not have happened. The appearance of impropriety is there even if no impropriety took place. Lynch may need to clearly and unambiguously recuse herself, even if that means she can no longer be briefed on the case. > … > He may consciously want her to be President but unconsciously be determined to prevent her from being President. (He would scarcely be the first husband to have mixed feelings about a potential job-upgrade for his wife.) > > In any case, I do have great sympathy for Lynch who was in an impossible position. She couldn’t say ‘no’ to Bill–a man who is arguably responsible for much of her career success (he’d appointed her in 1999 as US Attorney for the Eastern District of NY). She couldn’t say ‘I’d love to see you, Bill, but it would look wrong, so we’d better not’ because that would be the same thing as telling him he was an idiot for asking (which he was). > > Tough spot for her and it’s already caused her no end of trouble. And meanwhile I would guess that Bill still doesn’t see any problem with his choice. > > But Bill is not operated by Hillary; he is operated by his own little brain. So this does nothing to affect my intention to vote for Hillary. > > ETA: Trump’s ‘theory’ that Hillary WANTED the meeting is absurd on its face, it goes without saying; why would a face-to-face meeting with Bill be crucial to corrupting Lynch into acting in some way that would benefit Hillary? (Particularly when the final FBI report is unlikely to contain anything substantial.) Was it supposed to be the case that Bill needed to romance Lynch? Bring her a sack of cash? What? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/75 "2016-07-02T19:06:58Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > There are TWO issues, here: > > 1. Did Bill Clinton, by entering Lynch’s plane or during that visit, commit an act that compromises the Justice investigation? > > and > > 1. Did Bill Clinton, by entering Lynch’s plane, commit an act of stupidity by giving the right endless fodder for idiotic speculation? > > Many die-hard Clinton supporters are answering “no” to 1 and a resounding “yes” to 2. The problem is there is no way to assess question #1. We do not know what they talked about on the plane. Therein lies the problem. That is why everyone answers “yes” to #2. It might have been about grandkids, it might have been about the FBI investigation and that speculation is a real problem. It is understandable for people to be dubious that Clinton and Lynch both happened to be at the same place at the same time with their planes. That Clinton just happened to delay his departure in order to wait for Lynch so he could just catch up and talk about grandkids. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/76 "2016-07-02T19:15:20Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Yes, while they were accidentally “passing” each other in the airport they managed to talk about golf, travel, grandchildren, Brexit and “things like that”. They must be the most succinct small talkers on the fucking planet. Either its… Why yes, I’ve said hi to former co workers that I’ve seen in a mall or on a trip & yes I have spent 30 minutes chatting with them. (If Drumpf can’t talk about his grand kids for more than 8 seconds, that seems more like a “Me!Me!Me! Its all about Me! I’m bored with the grand kids talk, what about Me?” problem.) Or its… “I blame that Mexican Judge from Ohio…” because that’s not a scandal but passing in an airport is. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/77 "2016-07-02T19:25:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The problem is there is no way to assess question #1. > We do not know what they talked about on the plane. Therein lies the problem. That is why everyone answers “yes” to #2. It might have been about grandkids, it might have been about the FBI investigation and that speculation is a real problem. > It is understandable for people to be dubious that Clinton and Lynch both happened to be at the same place at the same time with their planes. That Clinton just happened to delay his departure in order to wait for Lynch so he could just catch up and talk about grandkids. Yes, I agree, and that’s why I adhere to the theory that though Bill consciously wants his wife to become President, he’s working very hard on an unconscious level to make sure that doesn’t happen. As many have noted, there are plenty of unobtrusive ways in which Bill and/or Hillary could have attempted to bribe Lynch or threaten Lynch or whatever the conspiracy theory concerning Lynch may entail. If they genuinely wanted to bribe or threaten her, they could have done so with no one else the wiser. The right is making a mistake by harping on the theme that _Something Untoward MUST Have Happened!!!1!!!_ … because doing so makes the right look deficient in common sense. Clearly it makes no sense for Bill to have made a public show of _Corrupting Loretta, OMG!_ If he (and/or Hillary) wanted to make an attempt to Corrupt Loretta, this would not have been a reasonable way to do it. So this is something else. The airplane visit was something else. My bet on what that something else might be: on the conscious level it was Bill thinking he was doing what he _always_ does, what master politicians _always_ do–press the flesh, keep up that networking, keep the lines of communication open, etc. etc. And his unconscious mind simply prevented him from seeing the harm he was doing to his wife’s prospects…because he _couldn’t_ let himself realize that. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/78 "2016-07-02T19:44:21Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > As many have noted, there are plenty of unobtrusive ways in which Bill and/or Hillary could have attempted to bribe Lynch or threaten Lynch or whatever the conspiracy theory concerning Lynch may entail. If they genuinely wanted to bribe or threaten her, they could have done so with no one else the wiser. I’m not so sure. A talk on a plane on a remote and private tarmac at a major airport seems great cover to me. The story is there was a leak somewhere that tipped off local media. If not for that this would have been a meeting no one knew about. Text messages, IMs, phone calls and so on all leave records. If I was looking to have a private communication, particularly a private face-to-face communication, the airport thing seems an excellent choice. Consider all the times you have been in an airport. Do you think you’d spot Bill Clinton walking to Loretta Lynch’s plane? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/79 "2016-07-02T19:57:39Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Well, it seems only die hard Clinton apologists think this is much ado about nothing. … I entered this thread as the second response commenting on how stupid it was of WJ Clinton to not think of the optics before being sociable. Not quite being a die-hard apologist to call him pathologic in that post I don’t think. And it is much ado about nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867/80 "2016-07-02T20:06:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And it is much ado about nothing. Apparently you have not read the news lately and seen the fuss…a fuss shared by both sides of the aisle. Since we cannot know what was said on the plane it leaves the door wide open to speculation. And while it may be speculation it is legitimate speculation (at least as to the purpose of the discussion). They are both savvy political players so it is exceptionally unlikely they had what looks to be an attempt at a covert meeting in order to catch-up about their families but maybe they did and it is all a colossal brain fart. Even if so why didn’t their staff point out the problem? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snother-stupid-self-inflicted-clinton-wound-bill-loretta-meeting/758867.md?page=5)