# Snowden Is A Hero: NSA Phone Capture And PRISM Are Blatantly Illegal **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 6, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-is-a-hero-nsa-phone-capture-and-prism-are-blatantly-illegal/662810 "2013-07-06T19:30:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-is-a-hero-nsa-phone-capture-and-prism-are-blatantly-illegal/662810/301 "2013-07-15T20:31:16Z")
Ultimately, I think this guy will spur either more secrecy and more stringent regulations to prevent this from happening, or (I wish) less of a focus on spying as part of our policy. Spying bothers me on a visceral level, not people spying on us, but any spying at all, but I have to balance that gut feeling with my brain knowing it does save lives. I just wish we would spy less overall ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2013, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-is-a-hero-nsa-phone-capture-and-prism-are-blatantly-illegal/662810/302 "2013-07-24T08:14:12Z")
Kind of interesting that chunks of Congress is joining with the great Enemy of the State/spy/traitor, against the progressive president, in wanting curbs on mass surveillance of the general population. Are wealthy conservatives worried their tax affairs might become fair game? > **[White House urges Congress to reject moves to curb NSA surveillance](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/24/nsa-surveillance-amash-amendment)** > > Obama administration alarmed by vote on 'Amash amendment' aimed at blocking blanket surveillance of phone records ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-is-a-hero-nsa-phone-capture-and-prism-are-blatantly-illegal/662810/303 "2013-07-25T07:13:19Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Kind of interesting that chunks of Congress is joining with the great Enemy of the State/spy/traitor, against the progressive president, in wanting curbs on mass surveillance of the general population. > > [White House urges Congress to reject moves to curb NSA surveillance | NSA | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/24/nsa-surveillance-amash-amendment) 1. To anybody who has followed American politics in recent years, that vote was comical. [Kevin Drum](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/07/amash-amendment-defund-nsa-phone-program-fails-house): > [@](#): > > But take a look at the vote count. When was the last time we saw something so genuinely bipartisan? In the end, 94 Republicans and 111 Democrats voted in favor, and the leaders of both parties—John Boehner, Eric Cantor, Nancy Pelosi, and Steny Hoyer—all joined with President Obama to oppose the amendment and keep the NSA program in place. Despite disagreements at the margin, support for the fundamental structure of the modern national security state truly spans both parties. That was 217 noes and 205 ayes - a pretty close vote, though I don’t know how much arm twisting was involved. But the heavies all voted to strike it down. The Republicans figured out last decade that bipartisanship tends to work in favor of the occupant of the White House, so they will typically sabotage it as best they can. Except in emergencies, of which this is one. 2. [QUOTE=BrokenBriton] Are wealthy conservatives worried their tax affairs might become fair game? [/QUOTE] I dunno, but methinks there’s a dirty secret embedded. The elite _knows_ that they over-reached in the days following 911, just as they know that providing the executive with the tools for massive over-reach threatens _both_ sides. And that members of the elite (monetary, political and infotainment) are a heck of a lot more likely to be targeted than Jill Sixpack or Soccer Dad. So yeah, there’s some tension in wonderland. 1. Ergo, there’s modest support for modest reform. [Yahoo got FISA to run a declassification review](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/07/fisa-court-agrees-publish-secret-decision) of its secret court decisions. Support for privacy violations among the public at large [has gone wobbly](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/07/edward-snowden-public-opinion) (not that it would threaten the security state in any serious way- again any reforms would be modest). An end to bulk phone call data collection is [plausible](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/07/ron-wyden-has-feeling-obama-may-halt-bulk-phone-record-collection). ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-is-a-hero-nsa-phone-capture-and-prism-are-blatantly-illegal/662810/304 "2013-07-25T08:42:54Z")
Ok, cheers for that. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-is-a-hero-nsa-phone-capture-and-prism-are-blatantly-illegal/662810/305 "2013-07-25T14:47:29Z")
But sadly, the conservatives and the Obamabots will happily throw Snowden under the bus for their various reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-is-a-hero-nsa-phone-capture-and-prism-are-blatantly-illegal/662810/306 "2013-07-25T15:44:05Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > But sadly, the conservatives and the Obamabots will happily throw Snowden under the bus for their various reasons. How can he be thrown, who has already jumped? ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-is-a-hero-nsa-phone-capture-and-prism-are-blatantly-illegal/662810/307 "2013-07-26T17:38:59Z")
The issue at hand, aptly summarized by [Saturday Morning Breakfast Cerea](http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=3061#comic)l. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-is-a-hero-nsa-phone-capture-and-prism-are-blatantly-illegal/662810/308 "2013-07-26T18:43:55Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > How can he be thrown, who has already jumped? Throwing him would be calling him a criminal and a spy. The proper treatment would be to recognize him as a hero and whistleblower. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-is-a-hero-nsa-phone-capture-and-prism-are-blatantly-illegal/662810.md?page=15)