# Snowden now? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859 "2019-06-21T20:06:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/41 "2019-07-09T19:20:33Z")
Yeah, I’ve got to hold that we, as a people, are more secure when we’re aware of the ways our government is violating our founding documents. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/42 "2019-07-09T19:45:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If you consent to provide this information to corporations, then you have no reasonable expectation of privacy when it comes to the government acquiring it. So if you tell one person a secret, everyone else has the right to know your secrets - after all, at least one other person knows your secret now. Piss poor logic, mate, try again. > [@Smapti](#): > > It’s not his decision to make as to whether the government has “too much power”, and he’s wrong in believing that it does. The state _should_ have more power than the citizen. Yes, the state should have power, but it should not have the power to violate people’s privacy without oversight. Having oversight, having the ability to review the shine the light on the conduct of agencies we trust with that power is our insurance policy to make sure that they don’t abuse it. What were the Pentagon Papers? Who were the whistle blowers at My Lai? Empowering a government to operate in secrecy inevitably leads to an erosion of governmental accountability to its stakeholders. I don’t mean this as a personal attack, but you are espousing authoritarian views, just as many of the people from John Brennan to James Clapper have, and now ironically express concerns about the dangers of having an authoritarian like Trump in power. This is exactly why Snowden was concerned, and Trump is exactly the sort of authoritarian that he feared could use the extraordinary powers of the executive against his critics. > [@Smapti](#): > > Donald Trump isn’t going to be president forever, Maybe not, but a president’s legacy can remain years after his departure. > [@Smapti](#): > > and we’re still going to need to be able to hunt down pedophiles, drug dealers, slave traders, and terrorists after he’s gone. I certainly have no objection to any of that, but there should always be mechanisms for oversight, and that should include people who have direct dog in the fight. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/43 "2019-07-09T21:18:22Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Yeah, I’ve got to hold that we, as a people, are more secure when we’re aware of the ways our government is violating our founding documents. None of the information Snowden leaked documents any such violations. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/44 "2019-07-10T01:07:44Z")
Although Snowden exposed how the government of a ‘free’ nation, can spy on its citizens, his actions illuminated a far larger problem - privacy could soon vanish (and it may already be too late to resurrect it). Without privacy in communication, does freedom even exist? Beyond simple lack of privacy, elections are meddled, a corporate guiding hand is empowered, civil discourse is weaponized, all in a manner chillingly akin to what Snowden has revealed about how the US government goes about its secret freedom-keeping business. But above all, modern communications have created a world where the most powerful can be aware of - and suppress - all dissent. A world where the eye of the ‘leaders’ is everywhere and their grip is unbreakable. Anyone would do well to read about the [Uighurs](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/04/world/asia/xinjiang-china-surveillance-prison.html) or [this piece](https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/7xgame/at-chinese-border-tourists-forced-to-install-a-text-stealing-piece-of-malware) about people visiting the Uighur province Xinjiang. Snowden was a prophet. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/45 "2019-07-10T01:18:27Z")
Snowden was in a position of trust, and decided to use that position to steal as much information as he could to sell it to the highest bidder, purely for purposes of enriching himself. There’s nothing at all noble about that. And it turns out that the juiciest information he could get ahold of was the knowledge that the US government was doing exactly what we, through our elected officials, told them to do. Unfortunately for Snowden, nobody’s willing to pay very much to learn that government agencies are following the Patriot Act. Yes, the people of the US needed to have their attention called to the fact of what the government is doing. A lot of folks tried to call attention to that way back when the Patriot Act was being passed. Those folks who tried to call attention to it back then deserve praise, and it’s not their fault that not enough people listened to them. Snowden doesn’t deserve more praise for the fact that when he tried to line his own pockets, people finally paid attention. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/46 "2019-07-10T01:22:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Snowden . . . tried to line his own pockets . . . Can you elaborate please? Brother **Smapti** has also alluded to this. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/47 "2019-07-10T01:31:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Snowden was in a position of trust, and decided to use that position to steal as much information as he could to sell it to the highest bidder, purely for purposes of enriching himself. Who did he sell it to, and how much money did he get for it? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/48 "2019-07-10T15:57:25Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > A pardon? For betraying his country, putting innocent lives at risk, critically jeopardizing our nation’s security apparatus Citation needed. > [@](#): > > _What_ personal cost? If he wanted to put his money where his mouth is, he’d have turned himself in to face charges before a jury of his peers. Well of course! If I found the government was doing something massively illegal, and nobody else was willing to expose it, I should be willing to sacrifice 20 years of my life to set things right. Boy howdy, the notion of whistleblowing must be something that you hate. > [@Smapti](#): > > Snowden decided on his own that he was above the law and knew better than anyone else what should or shouldn’t be classified. And his alternative, other than allowing this massive illegal domestic surveillance program to continue, was…? Oh yeah, 20 years in the slammer. > [@](#): > > Noone’s civil liberties were violated by the existence of the program. Sez you. :rolleyes: > [@Smapti](#): > > Yes. He gets to live rent-free, all expenses paid, as the honored guest of a state that ensures his wellbeing because of how usefulness to them, and gets to be feted and treated like a celebrity by people who are mad at George W. Bush. > [@](#): > > He is living as a guest of the Russian government and getting paid to give talks to people who are still mad at George W. Bush. > > Some people would commit treason to have a lifestyle like that. I’ve spent time in both Hawaii and Moscow. I can tell you right now, I’d rather have a 6-figure income in Hawaii, but have to go to work every day, than have a 6-figure income in Moscow with no job and few expenses. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/49 "2019-07-10T15:59:41Z")
Short answer: I thought Snowden was a hero then, and I still think he’s a hero. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/50 "2019-07-10T16:32:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, the people of the US needed to have their attention called to the fact of what the government is doing. A lot of folks tried to call attention to that way back when the Patriot Act was being passed. Those folks who tried to call attention to it back then deserve praise, and it’s not their fault that not enough people listened to them. Snowden doesn’t deserve more praise for the fact that when he tried to line his own pockets, people finally paid attention. So trying to stop something wrong from happening is praiseworthy but exposing an ongoing wrongness is not? Even though you agree the American people needed their attention called to it? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/51 "2020-10-22T19:54:05Z")
Bumped. > **[Edward Snowden gets permanent residency in Russia - lawyer | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/22/europe/edward-snowden-russia-residency-intl/index.html)** > > Former US National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden has been given permanent residency in Russia, his lawyer Anatoly Kucherena told state-run news agency RIA Novosti. ---
**Author:** ![Mcmechanic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Mcmechanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mcmechanic)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/52 "2020-10-24T05:37:30Z")
Putin shill. Along with Assange. What about the secrets of other nations? Only America is bad, what the fuck ever. ---
**Author:** ![Mcmechanic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Mcmechanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mcmechanic)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/53 "2020-10-24T05:48:44Z")
How come there’s no Wikileaks for Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, and other crappy governments? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/54 "2020-10-24T07:08:01Z")
Because those countries actually do to their citizens the kind of things that people like Snowden fantasize about the US doing. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/55 "2020-10-24T14:02:52Z")
> [@Mcmechanic](#): > > Only America is bad . . . Nope, he did it because is America is good, or is supposed to be. “_America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great._” Snowden was trying to keep America great. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/56 "2020-10-24T17:29:53Z")
You understand that Snowden didn’t have access to top secret documents about Iran, right? He only had access to documents showing that the US was doing something shady, not for any other country. Also, do you need Wikileaks to tell you China is corrupt and authoritarian? Google “Chinese Uiygars”and you’ll find plenty of articles about their on-going genocide. Same with Russia and Iran and all the other “bad” countries. There’s no lack of media coverage of the immoral shit these countries get up to, so I’ve for no idea where this “only America is evil” complaint of yours is coming from. ---
**Author:** ![Mcmechanic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Mcmechanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mcmechanic)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/57 "2020-10-24T20:34:54Z")
But where are the top secret or diplomatic Files released for non western countries? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/58 "2020-10-24T21:11:52Z")
I don’t have them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/59 "2020-10-24T21:19:34Z")
Presumably, held by those countries? I’m not sure why you’re criticizing Snowden or Assange for not releasing documents that they don’t have access to in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Mcmechanic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@Mcmechanic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mcmechanic)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2020, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859/60 "2020-10-24T23:24:32Z")
I’m sure Snowden is living in Russia with the desire that America stays great /s Anyone I would look up to stays and fights, they don’t run for protection from a hostile government that does worse shit. The fact that Snowden ran to Russia calls into question his original intent in my eyes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowden-now/835859.md?page=4)