# Snowflakes **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 26, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196 "2012-12-26T16:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/1 "2012-12-26T16:57:19Z")
Is it true that no two snowflakes are alike? I’ve always heard this, but the sheer number of snowflakes that have EVER fallen strains credulity. Or do we have to inspect every flake on a subatomic level? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/2 "2012-12-26T17:03:26Z")
[Cecil’s answer](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/907/how-can-they-be-sure-no-two-snowflakes-are-alike). ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/3 "2012-12-26T17:39:31Z")
Flakes that form in warmer temperatures are basically balls of ice and are thus, more uniform. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/4 "2012-12-26T19:05:29Z")
Do you think that there are trees that are duplicates? Same issue (something growing with an evolving shape influenced by the environment, non-symmetrical, previous growth influences future growth, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/5 "2012-12-27T00:11:51Z")
I’ve never understood how we’re supposed to take this claim. At what level of detail are we supposed to be looking? As I look out my window, I see a bunch of little white dots, all indistinguishable: At this level of detail, the claim is clearly false. On the other hand, if we plot out the position of every water molecule and every impurity, you’d never find _anything_ that was identical, snowflake or no. Presumably, there’s some implied level of detail which makes the claim both true and nontrivial, but at what level is that? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/6 "2012-12-27T01:19:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ve never understood how we’re supposed to take this claim. At what level of detail are we supposed to be looking? As I look out my window, I see a bunch of little white dots, all indistinguishable: At this level of detail, the claim is clearly false. On the other hand, if we plot out the position of every water molecule and every impurity, you’d never find _anything_ that was identical, snowflake or no. Presumably, there’s some implied level of detail which makes the claim both true and nontrivial, but at what level is that? I think this factoid is repeated so often because of the contrast between the superficial similarity of snowflakes on the macro scale, and their incredible variety once you look at them under even low magnification. No two sand grains are identical either, but because they are not nearly so elaborate they don’t seem as interesting. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/7 "2012-12-27T01:33:53Z")
I’ve lived in many places over my lifetime where there was snow. I’ve developed a deep, abiding hatred for the stuff. I’ve seen the big, fat, lacey flakes. I’ve experienced first hand the sting of the granular snow driven by wind. However, it wasn’t until a few years ago that I saw snow that was in the actual, six-sided, famous “no two alike” snowflakes! I was astounded, and very pleasantly entertained. But it didn’t change my opinion: I still hate snow. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/8 "2012-12-27T01:36:08Z")
I found this on Google Books: > [@](#): > > The Michigan teacher - Volume 3 - Page 131 > > William Harold Payne, Michigan. Dept. of Public Instruction - 1868 > Shall we believe that the Being who made no two leaves alike, no two faces, no two snowflakes, meant that all minds should be alike. Would not a world thus constituted be unspeakably monotonous. I know of no reason to suppose that mental … This piety is found in other 19th sources. Google’s dates are sometimes off for periodicals, but I checked and this appears to be correctly from the April 1868 issue. In addition Wilson A. Bentley became the [first person to photograph a single snowflake in 1885](http://news.discovery.com/earth/first-snowflake-photograph-110121.html). > [@](#): > > “Under the microscope, I found that snowflakes were miracles of beauty; and it seemed a shame that this beauty should not be seen and appreciated by others. Every crystal was a masterpiece of design and no one design was ever repeated. When a snowflake melted, that design was forever lost. Just that much beauty was gone, without leaving any record behind,” Bentley is quoted by the Jericho Historical Society. … > > In 1931 he would publish a book, “Snow Crystals” chronicling more than 2,400 photographs of snowflakes. So non-duplication appears at the level of photos of snowflakes. The technical feat of creating such a photo would have been immensely powerful in the 19th century and taken as a confirmation of God’s beneficence. The book took the notion and hammered it home with seeming scientific evidence. Becoming a banal factoid would be a later result as it dulled with repetition. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/9 "2012-12-27T03:16:20Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I found this on Google Books: > > This piety is found in other 19th sources. Google’s dates are sometimes off for periodicals, but I checked and this appears to be correctly from the April 1868 issue. > > In addition Wilson A. Bentley became the [first person to photograph a single snowflake in 1885](http://news.discovery.com/earth/first-snowflake-photograph-110121.html). > > So non-duplication appears at the level of photos of snowflakes. The technical feat of creating such a photo would have been immensely powerful in the 19th century and taken as a confirmation of God’s beneficence. The book took the notion and hammered it home with seeming scientific evidence. Becoming a banal factoid would be a later result as it dulled with repetition. (underline mine) 1. Regarding the first underlined: Hats off! The diligence shown is another reason the SD is terrific. 2. It shouldn’t be forgotten that the beauty itself was/is claimed to be part of the evidence of God. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/10 "2012-12-27T08:55:28Z")
What’s remarkable to me is not the dissimilarity of one snowflake vs another, but the _similarity_ of each of the six arms of any given snowflake - no need to point out that they’re not always symmetrical - it’s just amazing that they _ever_ are symmetrical - how do the water molecules forming one arm know what the other arms are doing? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/11 "2012-12-27T15:45:26Z")
As I understand it, the arms all grow at approximately the same rate, and when an arm branches is determined by local atmospheric conditions like temperature, pressure, and humidity. These change essentially not at all over scales of the size of a snowflake, so when conditions are right for one arm to branch, they’re right for all the arms to branch. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/12 "2012-12-27T15:51:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > As I understand it, the arms all grow at approximately the same rate, and when an arm branches is determined by local atmospheric conditions like temperature, pressure, and humidity. These change essentially **not** at all over scales of the size of a snowflake, so when conditions are right for one arm to branch, they’re right for all the arms to branch. Bolding mine. Is that word supposed to be there? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/13 "2012-12-27T15:55:15Z")
[More snowflake pictures](http://www.flickr.com/photos/fwwidall/sets/72157603415282264/). Unique or not, there’s certainly an amazing variety. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/14 "2012-12-27T16:00:16Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Bolding mine. Is that word supposed to be there? Think so. **Chronos** is saying that, across a region the size of a snowflake, there is essentially no significant gradient of temperature, humidity, pressure, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Indian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@Indian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indian)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/15 "2013-01-31T07:24:43Z")
Month old thread, but… Caltech maintains this [website.](http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/alike/alike.htm) It says small crystals can [look alike](http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snowcrystals/alike/twoalike.jpg), but bigger ones are different. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/16 "2013-01-31T15:48:52Z")
Great site. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowflakes/645196/17 "2013-01-31T17:56:20Z")
[Make your own.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EmhGOQ-DNQ)