# Snowiest City in World? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 1, 2001, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332 "2001-12-01T17:20:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2001, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/21 "2001-12-02T06:42:40Z")
FWIW, if we’re considering small towns and villages as well, I offer Mt. Baker, Washington. Population: 150. Average annual snowfall: 615 inches. [http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2000/wsnorcrd.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2000/wsnorcrd.htm) ---
**Author:** ![zapp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a88e4f/32.png) [@zapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zapp)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2001, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/22 "2001-12-02T07:03:06Z")
Ugh - I think I got myself in over my head here. Admittedly, if we consider Syracuse a city (which of course it is), then we must consider Blue Canyon a city…which means we must consider Valdez a city, which means we must consider Mt. Baker a city… I apologize for any previous potentially rude remarks, as I did not expect the response this thread would receive (although I GREATLY appreciate the info). So, I suppose we’re at Mt. Baker now (as long as we are talking about incorporated cities). Big thanks to Wumpus and Fear Itself for the great insight. I am still perusing the web in hopes of some definitive answers; and while we still look for the snowiest ‘city’ in U.S., let’s get some serious contenders for snowiest cities oustide U.S…Sapporo (spelling?) being one. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2001, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/23 "2001-12-02T07:06:54Z")
Sorry **Wumpus** , that dog won’t hunt. Mt. Baker, while it has population, is an unincorporated ski area; ergo, it is not a city. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2001, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/24 "2001-12-02T17:28:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Wumpus \* > \*\*… > > K364, I got the information on Moscow, Montreal and Edmonton by typing the city name and “average winter temperature” into Google. Here’s the city of Edmonton itself backing up my claim. (Actually, they say it’s even colder: -15!) > > [http://www.gov.edmonton.ab.ca/transportation\_streets/streets\_engineering/snow\_and\_ice\_control/edmontons\_weather.html](http://www.gov.edmonton.ab.ca/transportation_streets/streets_engineering/snow_and_ice_control/edmontons_weather.html) > > …\*\* Oh. I see. It’s the daily _low._ Still a little surprised about Moscow - it’s almost 3 degrees of latitude more northerly than Edmonton and both cities sit in the middle of a continent. But then again, Winterpeg is farther south than both and look at it! Brrrr! More temps of large northern cities : (source is [http://www.usatoday.com/weather/walm0.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/weather/walm0.htm)) ```auto H L (Celsius) Edmonton -6 -16 Calgary -1 -12 Winnipeg -10 -19 Ottawa -5 -13 Quebec City -6 -15 Montreal -4 -12 Toronto -1 -9 Minneapolis -4 -13 Moscow -5 -11 St. Petersburg -4 -8 Olso 0 -6 Stockholm 0 -6 Helsinki -2 -8 ``` ---
**Author:** ![pikeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@pikeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pikeman)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/25 "2010-11-23T06:37:03Z")
There are many other towns that would qualify, but it is hard to get the info, Revelstoke and Fernie British Columbia definitely would be in the running. The ski lodge just above Fernie receives 28 feet of snow per year (346 inches). ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/26 "2010-11-23T06:56:57Z")
Huh. Turns out zombies last forever when they’re buried in snow. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/27 "2010-11-23T07:51:12Z")
> [@Wumpus](#): > > FWIW, Google shows Montreal and Moscow seem to be tied for coldest city over a million, with average winter temperatures of -10 C and -9 C respectively. (Edmonton easily beats them both with an average winter temperature of -14, but its metro area is only 900,000.) This can’t be true. Harbin comes to mind as some place that is definitely colder. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/28 "2010-11-23T08:17:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Valdez is a city incorporated in 1901. If you want to add qualifications to the OP based on population, fine; but don’t make arbitrary pronouncements about what is or is not a city. I’m sticking with Valdez. The problem with that approach is that official designations of what is or is not a “city” can themselves be pretty arbitrary. Alaska, apparently, awards the title of "city’ to settlements that in most parts of the world would be little more than a village, and that are certainly not cities in the common sense of the word. If the OP is looking for the snowiest city _in the world_ then there needs to be a concept of “city” which is applied uniformly. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/29 "2010-11-23T12:09:50Z")
I never knew zombies liked snow! ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/30 "2010-11-23T13:59:29Z")
> [@zapp](#): > > But to the Colorado fan, you’re not even close…I lived less than an hour for Fort Collins, and they are in semi-arid desert. Probably less than 50" a year. Heck, small town Marquette, Michigan averages TWICE that amount. Having lived in both areas, I can tell you from experience - as far as I’m concerned, the Colorado Front Range has no winter. The amount of snow is laughable. Colorado mountains? Different story. But Boulder/Denver/Fort Collins/etc rarely gets what I would consider a real winter. And Marquette averages 184 inches a year, way more than Fort Collins. But Houghton - farther north and more surrounding lake, averages 220. Marquette’s also one of the few areas in the country where there’s a [100% chance of a white Christmas](http://ols.nndc.noaa.gov/plolstore/plsql/olstore.prodspecific?prodnum=C00493-PUB-A0001)every year. Yay! ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/31 "2010-11-23T14:01:59Z")
Which is the zombiest city in the world? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/32 "2010-11-23T14:07:46Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > The problem with that approach is that official designations of what is or is not a “city” can themselves be pretty arbitrary. Alaska, apparently, awards the title of "city’ to settlements that in most parts of the world would be little more than a village, and that are certainly not cities in the common sense of the word. If the OP is looking for the snowiest city _in the world_ then there needs to be a concept of “city” which is applied uniformly. OK, I’m listening; what makes a city a “city?” ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/33 "2010-11-23T14:11:16Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > This can’t be true. Harbin comes to mind as some place that is definitely colder. I was going to add [Novosibirsk](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novosibirsk) as a colder city with over 1 million in population, but it appears [Harbin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbin) does trump it, both in size and how cold their Januarys get. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/34 "2010-11-23T17:39:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > OK, I’m listening; what makes a city a “city?” In the U.S., it depends on the state. Some states require different minimum populations than others. I’m every country has its own technical definition as well. The cities, towns, and villages in the[lake affect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake-effect_snow) area east of Lake Ontario - epitomized by Watertown - regularly get 200 inches of snow a year. The Tug Hill Plateau gets its worst. > [@](#): > > The communities of Redfield in Oswego County and Montague and North Osceola in Lewis County, all on the Tug Hill Plateau, average over 300 inches (760 cm) of snow each winter.[12] In February, 2007, a prolonged lake-effect snow event left 141 inches (360 cm) of snow on the Tug Hill Plateau. Lake Superior has a horrendous snow belt of its own. > [@](#): > > A very large snowbelt in the United States is the one in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, near the cities of Houghton, Marquette, and Munising. These areas average 250–300 inches (630–760 cm) of snow each season.[17] For comparison, on the western shore, Duluth, Minnesota receives 78 inches (200 cm) per season.[18] Lake Superior and Lake Huron rarely freeze because of their size and depth; hence, lake-effect snow can fall continually in the Upper Peninsula and Canadian snowbelts during the winter months. Main areas of the Upper Peninsula snow belt include the Keweenaw Peninsula and Baraga, Marquette and Alger counties, where Lake Superior contributes to lake-effect snow, making them a prominent part of the midwestern snow belt. Records of 390 inches (990 cm) of snow or more have been set in many communities in this area. The Keweenaw Peninsula averages more snowfall than almost anywhere in the United States—more than anywhere east of the Mississippi River and the most of all non-mountainous regions of the continental United States. Because of the howling storms across Lake Superior, which cause dramatic amounts of precipitation, it has been said that the lake-effect snow makes the Keweenaw Peninsula the snowiest place east of the Rockies. Herman, Michigan, averages 236 inches (600 cm) of snow every year. Lake-effect snow can cause blinding whiteouts in just minutes, and some storms can last days. I don’t know whether any of these communities qualify as cities under local definitions, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/35 "2010-11-23T17:49:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Valdez is a city incorporated in 1901. If you want to add qualifications to the OP based on population, fine; but don’t make arbitrary pronouncements about what is or is not a city. I’m sticking with Valdez. It’s also the terminus for the Alaska pipeline, a popular fishing and tourism destination, and is certainly on the map for the dubious honor of the Exxon Valdez spill. Juneau gets a light dusting in comparison to the Prince William Sound area. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/36 "2010-11-23T17:55:11Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > The problem with that approach is that official designations of what is or is not a “city” can themselves be pretty arbitrary. Alaska, apparently, awards the title of "city’ to settlements that in most parts of the world would be little more than a village, and that are certainly not cities in the common sense of the word. If the OP is looking for the snowiest city _in the world_ then there needs to be a concept of “city” which is applied uniformly. I’m pretty sure that whatever it’s called is irrelevant in the context of this thread. The parameters here seem to be population numbers. For the purposes of this thread, it would seem that a city is an incorporated entity with people living in it. The term village or town can have different connotations for different areas, so is useless here. For example, in Alaska, a village is generally a place that is predominately Alaska Native. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/37 "2010-11-23T18:08:57Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I don’t know whether any of these communities qualify as cities under local definitions, though. They don’t. The entire UP has a population slightly under 320K; the single largest community has a population of around 20K. In other words, 200+ inches of snow keeps the riffraff out. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/38 "2010-11-23T18:11:34Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > The problem with that approach is that official designations of what is or is not a “city” can themselves be pretty arbitrary. Alaska, apparently, awards the title of "city’ to settlements that in most parts of the world would be little more than a village, and that are certainly not cities in the common sense of the word. If the OP is looking for the snowiest city _in the world_ then there needs to be a concept of “city” which is applied uniformly. There’s a similar situation in California. California law allows only two types of incoporated municpalities: a city and a town. The vast majority of incoporated municipalities are called cities. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/39 "2010-11-24T07:50:46Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > There’s a similar situation in California. California law allows only two types of incoporated municpalities: a city and a town. The vast majority of incoporated municipalities are called cities. I know. But there are more places in the world than Alaska and California. English has a common distinction between “city” and “town” (a distinction which is entirely lacking in many other languages, incidentally; they are both _ville_ in French.) A city is both larger in population and more important than a town. We expect a city to offer a range of social, cultural and educational institutions, for example, and to have a diverse cultural life. A city has a reputation which goes beyond its immediate vicinity. A city has cultural as well as legal status. An Alaskan settlement with a population of less than five thousand is not, in the common sense of the word, a city. But if it is going to be taken to be city for the purposes of this thread then any similarly small, similarly remote settlement anywhere in the world should also be taken to be a city, if the question posed is not to have an arbitrary answer. ---
**Author:** ![im.ghoti-remember.me](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/43a26b/32.png) [@im.ghoti-remember.me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/im.ghoti-remember.me)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332/40 "2010-11-24T08:03:31Z")
…let me say that it is definitely the snowiest city in the world. I have researched this extensively. With an average annual snowfall of more than 320 inches per year, it ranks well above any other cities snowfall totals. There are a few snowier “places” than Valdez, but not many. And none of the places with more annual snowfall is in an area that is populated in any meaningful way. And lest anyone object, Valdez, Alaska is definitely a “city” as most of the United States and indeed most of the world understands the word. ([City - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City)) ([Town - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town)) In fact, in many places, there is no distinction between “city” and “town”. The state of Alaska considers Valdez a “city” and therefore is legally regarded as a “city” by the governmental body responsible for making such decisions locally. Valdez has it’s own fire and police departments, utilities, sanitation, water treatment plant, courthouse, hospital (owned by the city itself!), library, shopping district, business district, public and private school systems, collage, large ship (think oil tankers) shipping ports (TWO of them in fact!), an airport, social services, retirement community, traffic lights, industries (oil, transportation, fishing, tourism, food processing, etc.), and just about every other thing any other city might have (except a Wal-Mart). So, despite a small population (which actually swells to over 10,000 in the summer and winter months), Valdez, Alaska IS a city, and until someone can point out otherwise, has more annual snowfall, per annum, than any other city in the world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/snowiest-city-in-world/96332.md?page=3)