# So admit it, are (still) sure Trump will not become the new president? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 23, 2016, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445 "2016-05-23T07:07:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/101 "2016-05-23T20:51:58Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > How has democracy failed? There have always been safeguards to prevent the riff raff from running the asylum. This is the result of more democracy not less. What are those safeguards? If they fail, democracy has failed, or at least American democracy has failed. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/102 "2016-05-23T21:01:13Z")
Just about what I did expected, a tight race brought by bullshit politics from the Republicans and the media. I still do think Clinton will succeed, but it will be close. What is the bullshit? Conservative Paggy Noonan once explained unwillingly on an open mike when talking about a previous radical incompetent: Sarah Pallin: > [@](#): > > Wall Street Journal columnist and former Reagan speechwriter Peggy Noonan and former John McCain adviser, Time columnist, and MSNBC contributor Mike Murphy were caught on tape disparaging John McCain’s selection of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his Vice Presidential running mate. > > “It’s over,” Noonan said. > > When Chuck Todd asked her if this was the most qualified woman the Republicans could nominate, Noonan responded, “The most qualified? No. I think they went for this, excuse me, political bullshit about narratives. Every time the Republicans do that, because that’s not where they live and that’s not what they’re good at, they blow it.” > > Murphy characterized the choices as “cynical” and “gimmicky.” Seeing how Trump has gotten closer to Palin you can figure out how I see many of the congress critters and governors that had doubts that are now claiming to support Trump; besides the obvious Political Bullshit, this is now one of the best examples of the Republicans supporting their party more than their country. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/103 "2016-05-23T21:04:21Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > What are those safeguards? If they fail, democracy has failed, or at least American democracy has failed. The safeguards were things that mitigated the passions of the easily excitable portions of the electorate. Such as party primaries and the electoral college. Now in the name of democracy we may just get Trump. Lol. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/104 "2016-05-23T21:13:06Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > If politics weren’t inherently sexist in nature, I might agree. However, the fact that she’s running to be the first ever female presidential candidate should tel you something. Yeah, it tells me that for the first time the more than half of American voters who are women will get a chance to vote for a woman for POTUS. And I don’t suppose there are very many of them who count her sticking by Bill as a point **against** her. > [@Biffster](#): > > The other thing is change. Recent history would suggest that Republicans and Democrats switch presidencies every eight years or so. I wouldn’t put too much weight on that. The number of presidential elections since WWII is not a statistically significant sample, if the concept could even apply to a field where the basic conditions change over time, and besides, this election year clearly is an exception to any rules previously applicable. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/105 "2016-05-23T21:15:05Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The safeguards were things that mitigated the passions of the easily excitable portions of the electorate. Such as party primaries . . . No, the primaries were introduced to replace the old smoke-filled-room system where the party electorate had no direct say at all. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/106 "2016-05-23T21:17:14Z")
Missed the link in my previous post: > **[Peggy Noonan, Mike Murphy Caught On Tape Disparaging Palin Choice: "Political...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/peggy-noonan-mike-murphy_n_123647)** > > Peggy Noonan, Mike Murphy Caught On Tape Disparaging Palin Choice: "Political Bullshit," "Gimmicky" ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/107 "2016-05-23T21:43:38Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > The question is, why do we think Trump is a clueless idiot about government and public affairs? And the best answer I can come up with is – well, what he’s been saying and doing during this campaign, of course. > > But given that he defeated all of the GOP contenders, and that he’s apparently polling superbly against Clinton, I have to ask: how would a brainy wonk act if he realized that ‘acting like a clueless idiot’ would let him defeat all of the GOP contenders and poll superbly against Clinton? And the answer is – like _that,_ right? > > This is, officially, now the one thing that gives me hope: that the success of Trump’s tactic is, arguably, reason to believe that it _is_ just a tactic. > > Isn’t it pretty to think so? Trump didn’t just adopt his racist & misogynistic narcissism when he announced his candidacy. We have decades of examples of him shooting off his bigoted mouth and acting pathological in public. This isn’t (solely) opportunism. That (including the opportunism) is the real him. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/108 "2016-05-23T21:46:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I don’t suppose there are very many of them who count her sticking by Bill as a point **against** her. What about her statement “[Every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed, and supported.](Every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed, and supported.)” Does it apply to the women who have accused her husband, including the one he settled with for $850,000? Or are they bimbos who are exceptions to the rule? [I have a prediction.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19352213&postcount=251) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/109 "2016-05-23T22:01:12Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > …Does it apply to the women who have accused her husband, including the one he settled with for $850,000? Or are they bimbos who are exceptions to the rule?.. Not saying your word isn’t gold around here, but you know how some people can be, what with demanding cites and all that stuff. So, whaddaya say we just humor them? They’re right at your fingertips anyway, so no sweat! Besides, it will totally vex them when you show off your impartial and unbiased citation. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/110 "2016-05-23T22:06:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Not saying your word isn’t gold around here, but you know how some people can be, what with demanding cites and all that stuff. So, whaddaya say we just humor them? They’re right at your fingertips anyway, so no sweat! Besides, it will totally vex them when you show off your impartial and unbiased citation. [After fighting Paula Jones’ sexual harassment lawsuit for four years, President Bill Clinton agreed Friday to pay Jones $850,000 to drop the case](http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1998/11/13/jones/) Now that that is out of the way, perhaps you could craft one of your hyper-snarky responses that actually answers the question contained in the post you were replying to. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/111 "2016-05-23T22:15:48Z")
Paula Jones? Mockery would be superfluous. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/112 "2016-05-23T22:19:09Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > What about her statement “[Every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed, and supported.](Every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed, and supported.)” > > Does it apply to the women who have accused her husband, including the one he settled with for $850,000? Or are they bimbos who are exceptions to the rule? [shrug] They deserve to be supported, but not necessarily by the wife of the man they accuse. > [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > [I have a prediction.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19352213&postcount=251) > [@](#): > > I have a prediction: > > Trump will pull black voters from Hillary by comparing the treatment that Bill Cosby has gotten to that of Bill Clinton, and suggesting that the difference is due to Cosby’s race and the Clinton’s privilege as powerful white politicians. :rolleyes: No, I don’t think that’s going to draw very many black voters into the Trump column. You’re reaching desperately, there. They know all about white privilege, and they know Bill has it – and they know Donald has it too – and they know which candidate and which party is likelier to look out for their interests. They’re not going to abandon Hillary just because her husband mostly got away with being a sleazebag – which is a far cry from being a rapist, which Cosby apparently is. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/113 "2016-05-23T22:32:12Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, but she’ll still be Hillary Clinton, which means it’s never in the bag. It’s always a struggle with her. > > Then there’s this simple logic that’s nagging at me: how can a candidate struggle to appeal to her own party two times in a row, yet somehow appeal to the general electorate? I wonder if it has something to do with having a charismatic opponent in one primary and one who’s capitalizing on wide economic discontent in the next? ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/114 "2016-05-23T22:37:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [shrug] They deserve to be supported, but not necessarily by the wife of the man they accuse. > > :rolleyes: No, I don’t think that’s going to draw very many black voters into the Trump column. You’re reaching desperately, there. They know all about white privilege, and they know Bill has it – and they know Donald has it too – and they know which candidate and which party is likelier to look out for their interests. They’re not going to abandon Hillary just because her husband mostly got away with being a sleazebag – which is a far cry from being a rapist, which Cosby apparently is. They have both been accused of being rapists by women who spent time with them. The implication does not have to work on “very many black voters”. Trump already pulls at least one or two out of twenty black voters by all measures and reasonable predictions.[If he pulls three out of twenty he is the president.](http://www.triplepundit.com/2016/05/van-jones-dems-trump-really-win-presidency/#) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/115 "2016-05-24T00:34:30Z")
Part of me thinks a Trump presidency would be better. Lose the battle but win the war. The 2020 election is the big election. In 2020 we will redraw districts. It is also the year when all millennials are eligible to vote and will make up about 40% of voters. 2020 could signal the start of a new progressive era. But if it is the 4th democrat elected in a row, that will dilute it. Pursuing Trump as a Leninist strategy so he can fuck things up from 2017-2020 would probably be good for the progressive movement. Assuming democrats get control of the senate and filibuster his worst ideas. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/116 "2016-05-24T00:45:13Z")
The other saving grace is that we’re overdue for a recession. Better for it to happen to Trump than to someone who might actually make a good President. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/117 "2016-05-24T01:13:06Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > The other thing is change. Recent history would suggest that Republicans and Democrats switch presidencies every eight years or so. That’s a thing of the past. The rule now is that the Republicans aren’t ever allowed to win the White House again. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/118 "2016-05-24T01:17:41Z")
Zero chance. A good Republican candidate with a unified party would have a very hard uphill battle. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/119 "2016-05-24T01:25:56Z")
Whether I like him or not does not matter, but yes I have grown accustomed to the fact that there is a possibility of Donald John Trump being elected President of the United States of America. I still would place my money on Hillary Clinton, but Trump has smashed all conventional wisdom in this election. A month ago people would thought the Republicans would go to the convention and Hillary Clinton would have wrapped up by now. And while she is close to it, she has Bernie Sanders still in the race and Trump is the one running away with his nomination. Millions may be crying come November across the world, maybe billions of people. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445/120 "2016-05-24T01:34:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Yeah, but she’ll still be Hillary Clinton, which means it’s never in the bag. It’s always a struggle with her. > > Then there’s this simple logic that’s nagging at me: how can a candidate struggle to appeal to her own party two times in a row, yet somehow appeal to the general electorate? This is a real issue that Clinton supporters need to face. While Clinton has many qualities, she lacks charisma. And that’s a problem. Because while charisma doesn’t really matter all that much in being a President, it matters a lot in getting elected President. There are a lot of voters out there who approach voting for the President the same way they’d vote for Prom King. They base their decision on ridiculous things like who has better hair or who tells better jokes or who they’d rather have a beer with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-admit-it-are-still-sure-trump-will-not-become-the-new-president/755445.md?page=7)