# So... Adult incest is legal in NJ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 19, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320 "2015-01-19T22:38:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/21 "2015-01-20T15:55:10Z")
There was a ruling a few years back in WI that fucking a corpse was legal, so if you’re in doubt about fucking relatives here, kill them first! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/22 "2015-01-20T16:09:50Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > If non-consensual sex is a crime, why do we need a law saying THIS type of non-consensual sex is a crime? What do you mean? We are talking about consensual sex. Most states have statutes making consensual sex between closely related adults illegal. New Jersey does not. However the sexual assault statute (there is no “rape” in NJ statutes) state that the age of consent is bumped up to 18 if the two parties are related. That is statutory rape, not non-consensual. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/23 "2015-01-20T16:13:56Z")
If _Law & Order_ is to believed, it’s legal in New York too. I remember the episode. But it’s possible that case involved adoption. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/24 "2015-01-20T16:14:35Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > What do you mean? We are talking about consensual sex. Most states have statutes making consensual sex between closely related adults illegal. New Jersey does not. > > However the sexual assault statute (there is no “rape” in NJ statutes) state that the age of consent is bumped up to 18 if the two parties are related. That is statutory rape, not non-consensual. I was replying to **RTFirefly** ’s post: > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Why? Because of the all-too-real likelihood that one of the players has been in a position of power over the other (parent-child, older brother-younger sister), and that power relationship doesn’t just disappear the moment the younger party turns 18. > > Given that truly voluntary incestuous relationships are few, and abusive incestuous relationships are numerous, ISTM like the right way to tip the balance. Why create a law making ALL incestuous sex illegal, when you’re only making the law to prevent non-consensual sex? That’s already illegal. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/25 "2015-01-20T16:19:06Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > If non-consensual sex is a crime, why do we need a law saying THIS type of non-consensual sex is a crime? For one thing, conviction rates on rape are quite low. The problem (or, at least, one of them) being that “Your honor, she _wanted_ to have sex with me!” is more believable than “Your honor, he _wanted_ to give me all the money in his wallet!” So if we say a particular class of sexual interactions is _categorically_ a crime, we don’t have to get into that thicket in those instances. Obviously, there are not a lot of situations where it makes any sense to do this. But statutory rape is generally accepted as one of them. And I’d argue that raising the age of consent by a few years in the case of incestuous relationships would be another. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/26 "2015-01-20T16:25:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I really didn’t think I’d see the day when I’d run the risk of being labeled an extremist for saying that _incest_ ought to be illegal, but, well, here we are. I don’t think you’re an extremist. I just don’t think it’s such a huge deal. I also think you’re flat-out wrong about some of your follow-up: > [@Smapti](#): > > The state has a valid interest in prohibiting incestuous relations, mainly because it’s nearly impossible for someone to consent meaningfully to intercourse in a relationship where one person inherently holds power over another (parent-child, older sibling-younger sibling, aunt/uncle-niece/nephew, etc.), and those ties don’t go away with age - most of us, as adults, still view our parents and/or older siblings with respect if not necessarily obedience. For every completely consensual such relationship that might exist, there are countless others that are abusive, and the waters are far too muddy for the law to try to sort out the one from the other. Firstly, the alleged inherent power differential between siblings does, in fact, go away over time in many cases. I lorded over my younger sister when i was a kid, but now i consider her a complete equal, and i know she feels the same. (I’m still not interested in having sex with her though.) Basically every single thing you’ve written in this section could be said about hundreds of thousands of non-incestuous relationships. Power dynamics are an inherent part of many relationships. Maybe we should make sex between bosses and subordinates illegal also. What about your beloved police, whom you invest with so much respect and authority? Maybe we should make it illegal for them to have sex with civilians. Perhaps we should also have a law that precludes wealthy people from enticing poorer people into bed with implied promises of nice clothes and fancy cars? I could probably get on board with **RTFirefly** ’s suggestion of a slightly older age of consent, but apart from that i don’t see the big deal. And exactly how big is this problem that we should supposedly be legislating anyway? If every state made incest legal, what percentage of Americans, do you think, would turn into brother- and sister-fuckers? Is it greater than 1/100th of 1 percent? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/27 "2015-01-20T16:31:23Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > what percentage of Americans, do you think, would turn into brother- and sister-fuckers? Is it greater than 1/100th of 1 percent? Thanks to you, South Park’s “Uncle Fucka” and Arlo Guthrie’s “Father-rapers, there on the Group W bench” are fighting it out in my head. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/28 "2015-01-20T16:46:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > (withdrawn) I’d still advise a condom. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/29 "2015-01-20T16:51:09Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > . Power dynamics are an inherent part of many relationships. Maybe we should make sex between bosses and subordinates illegal also. It already _is_ in certain circumstances - public school teachers in many states cannot have sex with their students even if said student is of the age of consent, fraternization can get you court-martialed in the military, sex with a subordinate at work runs the risk of a sexual harassment claim, etc. > [@](#): > > If every state made incest legal, what percentage of Americans, do you think, would turn into brother- and sister-fuckers? Is it greater than 1/100th of 1 percent? Is it worth trying it to find out? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/30 "2015-01-20T16:55:23Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I was replying to **RTFirefly** ’s post: Sorry I didn’t follow. Understood now. > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > If _Law & Order_ is to believed, it’s legal in New York too. I remember the episode. But it’s possible that case involved adoption. No it’s illegal in New York. Maybe the episode had to do with the so called [incest loophole](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/20/opinion/nyregionopinions/20LIvachss.html) in New York law? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/31 "2015-01-20T17:00:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It already _is_ in certain circumstances - public school teachers in many states cannot have sex with their students even if said student is of the age of consent, fraternization can get you court-martialed in the military, sex with a subordinate at work runs the risk of a sexual harassment claim, etc. I’m aware of all that, but your argument implies that we should actually make it illegal for anyone in a relationship involving a relationship of power to have a sexual relationship. Would you support a law that criminalized such relationships? Would you support a law that would arrest a boss and a subordinate who had sex with one another, even if it were clear that both had freely consented to the encounter? Because that’s what an incest law does. There’s no “I really wanted to fuck my brother” exception, as far as i know. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/32 "2015-01-20T17:11:35Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’m aware of all that, but your argument implies that we should actually make it illegal for anyone in a relationship involving a relationship of power to have a sexual relationship. That’s taking it to an extreme I haven’t advocated for. I’m saying that incest is particularly prone to abuse because of power issues that are fundamentally ingrained in how we operate as a _species_. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/33 "2015-01-20T17:18:08Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Sorry I didn’t follow. Understood now. > > No it’s illegal in New York. Maybe the episode had to do with the so called [incest loophole](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/20/opinion/nyregionopinions/20LIvachss.html) in New York law? Thinking some more about it, I believe the mother was boffing her adopted son, and I believe he had just turned 18. So perhaps incest didn’t apply due the the adoptive status. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/34 "2015-01-20T17:41:14Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Thinking some more about it, I believe the mother was boffing her adopted son, and I believe he had just turned 18. So perhaps incest didn’t apply due the the adoptive status. That would depend on the wording of the statute. i don’t know enough about NY law to give an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/35 "2015-01-20T17:42:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That would depend on the wording of the statute. i don’t know enough about NY law to give an opinion. Odds are the writer’s didn’t either. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/36 "2015-01-20T18:32:59Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Yes adult incest is legal in New Jersey. It might be “legal” (ie Loach isn’t going to break down your door and yell, “Freeze! Hands In The Air! Ten Inches On The Table, Mister!”), but Nobody Actually Does This. Not even in the farthest tips of Sussex County where people make bad jokes about this sort of horror-show. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/37 "2015-01-20T18:45:04Z")
I’ll bet you there are enough people to populate a reality television show with an incest theme. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/38 "2015-01-20T18:56:16Z")
Ooh, a fresh idea for a new season of Survivor! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/39 "2015-01-20T19:18:00Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Ooh, a fresh idea for a new season of Survivor! Or maybe The Bachelor. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320/40 "2015-01-20T19:18:14Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > It might be “legal” (ie Loach isn’t going to break down your door and yell, “Freeze! Hands In The Air! Ten Inches On The Table, Mister!”), but Nobody Actually Does This. > > Not even in the farthest tips of Sussex County where people make bad jokes about this sort of horror-show. I have never dealt with a case that involved adult incest. But I’m not sure about the Newton Mutants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-adult-incest-is-legal-in-nj/710320.md?page=3)