# so Alexandre Grothendieck has passed away... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 14, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592 "2014-11-14T03:51:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![thanatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/97f17d/32.png) [@thanatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thanatic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/1 "2014-11-14T03:51:05Z")
where does he rate now, legacy wise, among mathematicians ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/2 "2014-11-14T05:09:26Z")
I’m not sure what the point is of all of your threads about ranking mathematicians and their contributions, but to answer your question: Grothendieck was undeniably a great mathematician whose seminal work in algebraic geometry and related areas is remarkable not only for the results themselves, but his reorganization of the subject (and quite a few other areas) in terms of category theory and similar abstractions. As for his rating: We usually wait a week or two before convening to decide his ranking, but the rumors are that he’ll be somewhere between 48th and 51st. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/3 "2014-11-14T13:50:37Z")
When I was in graduate school in 1959, one of the professors claimed he was the greatest mathematician alive. This was even before he had really begun reorganizing algebraic geometry. In truth he had but there was only one relevant publication at that time (the famous “Tohoku” paper). He had reorganized the study of topological vector spaces, the area also called “soft analysis”, which is what the professor worked in. I feel certain that his work on algebraic geometry, mostly published in the 1960s totally revolutionized the field. Then around 1969 he abruptly quit doing mathematics. He had realized that his position at the Institut de Hautes Etudes Scientifiques was funded by the military and he quit. He then became involved with a cult-like group called “Survivre” (Survive!) that was concerned with the future. He also got a job with the University of Montpellier and–I gather–became the financial support of the group. I had a private conversation with him for about an hour in the summer of 1971, but I could not get a clear statement of what he was doing. Then he retired, bought a farm in some secret place, and disappeared from public view. I never met him again. At the time, you would have gotten general agreement that he was the #1. Since then, a couple other names have come up, but lower than #3 or #4 is not plausible. Later he wrote an intemperate memoir, claiming, among other things, that all his best ideas had been stolen by students and colleagues and declaring that he didn’t want any publications of his ever translated or reprinted. A French group hoping to prepare his collected works then disbanded. My online journal was trying to reprint the Tohoku paper or maybe translate it, but he would not give permission. Finally, my wife and I translated it and posted it privately (and it has been downloaded hundreds of times) despite his express wishes. My attitude is that once published it is owned by mankind. That was the original purpose of the copyright laws. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/4 "2014-11-14T15:24:34Z")
One of the lesser-known [Millennium Prizes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Prize_Problems) is for the person who comes up with an algorithm for rating mathematicians. For a while there, Ed Witten seemed to have a lock on it until someone noticed that his formula stacked the deck in favor of himself. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/5 "2014-11-14T15:33:39Z")
It’s “Alexander”, not “Alexandre”. ---
**Author:** ![Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/soul_brother_number_two/32/3515_2.png) [@Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soul_Brother_Number_Two)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/6 "2014-11-14T19:03:36Z")
Did anyone else laugh when they saw dude’s last name, and as they moused over link to find out who dude was, misread “mathematician” as “masturbator?” Me too! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/7 "2014-11-14T20:01:01Z")
> [@thanatic](#): > > where does he rate now, legacy wise, among mathematicians He ranks among the deadest, at least for certain values of death. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/8 "2014-11-14T20:49:23Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > He ranks among the deadest, at least for certain values of death. Also amongst the \*least \*dead of dead mathematicians for certain values of death. Both at once!!!1! Math is weird that way. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/9 "2014-11-14T21:57:46Z")
Le headline on the article in Le Monde: [http://www.lemonde.fr/disparitions/article/2014/11/14/le-mathematicien-alexandre-grothendieck-est-mort\_4523482\_3382.html](http://www.lemonde.fr/disparitions/article/2014/11/14/le-mathematicien-alexandre-grothendieck-est-mort_4523482_3382.html) makes no bones about it: Alexandre Grothendieck, le plus grand mathématicien du XXe siècle, est mort (Alexandre Grothendieck, the greatest 20th century mathematician is dead). ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/10 "2014-11-14T22:36:45Z")
Maybe they meant “the largest mathematician.” Just on the name alone, I’m picturing a big guy. ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/11 "2014-11-15T01:13:59Z")
Hmm, I wouldn’t say he was the greatest mathematician of the 20th century, but he would definitely be on the short-list. (I don’t have anyone in particular in mind for the title of the greatest; that’s an odd thing to even contemplate naming.) He’s also something like the equivalent of Mike Tyson for mathematicians: someone about whom there’s no story crazy enough to immediately dismiss. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Also amongst the \*least \*dead of dead mathematicians for certain values of death. Both at once!!!1! > > Math is weird that way. Indeed, he is maximally dead. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/12 "2014-11-15T02:42:59Z")
> [@Itself](#): > > Hmm, I wouldn’t say he was the greatest mathematician of the 20th century, but he would definitely be on the short-list. (I don’t have anyone in particular in mind for the title of the greatest; that’s an odd thing to even contemplate naming.) “greatest” is always tough to assign, but I think you would have a hard time finding someone more influential without going back before World War II. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/13 "2014-11-15T15:44:03Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > “greatest” is always tough to assign, but I think you would have a hard time finding someone more influential without going back before World War II. Here is a link to an English translation of a long essay by Pierre Cartier who makes a pretty good case (although that was not his purpose): [A Country Known Only by Name | Pierre Cartier | Inference](http://inference-review.com/article/a-country-known-only-by-name). I was astonished by how much of his work is unpublished. Thousands and thousands of pages. And if, despite instructions to the contrary, the hoard is eventually opened, material for a dozen PhDs. A truly amazing person with his own unique vision of mathematics. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/14 "2014-11-16T00:47:01Z")
The man seems to have had heterodox religious views. Without providing detail, the New York Times tells us that “he studied Buddhism and mysticism,” and that “he gradually withdrew from society and, according to his biographer, began devoting himself obsessively to writing what he called his ‘meditations’.” His English-language Wikipedia page mentions a manuscript, _La Clef des Songes_, in which “he explains how considering the source of dreams led him to conclude that God exists,” and a letter, written in 1990, in which “he described his encounters with a deity and announced that a ‘New Age’ would commence on 14 October 1996.” Following a footnote, I came across this [.pdf](http://www.ams.org/notices/200410/fea-grothendieck-part2.pdf), which provides further detail: > [@](#): > > He says that God manifested Himself to him for the first time in 1986 and communicated to him through dreams. He also describes encounters with a deity named Flora, who imparts revelations but also cruelly tests his faith. Although the content of the letter is baffling, the way it is written is perfectly lucid. Three months later Grothendieck sent a “correction”, stating that he was no longer certain of the truth of the revelations described in “La Lettre de la Bonne Nouvelle”. He writes: “That I was the victim of a mystification by one of more ‘spirits’ (among which my limited capacity could not distinguish), invested with prodigious powers over my body and in my psyche, I no longer have the least doubt.” Another [.pdf](http://webusers.imj-prg.fr/~leila.schneps/grothendieckcircle/Clefsummary.pdf) provides an English-summary of _La Clef des Songes_. Aged 16, he first “became aware of the existence of God as an obvious fact.” Later on, in 1957, he felt a “strong call to find himself.” Only in 1976 did he took up meditation, followed by “self-discovery via dreams.” This finally led a personal encounter with “the Dreamer,” which he identifies as God. > [@](#): > > He says that such a thing [that “the Dreamer” = God] cannot be proven (gently mocking those who gave logical proofs of the existence of God) but only known first-hand by revelation and experience. He also briefly describes the prophetic contents of his dreams (a cataclysm for humanity within his lifetime, leading to a spiritual renewal of the remaining portion of humanity) and asserts that the realisation of these events is obviously the only ‘proof’ which can be offered to the doubting. I imagine there’s even more of the sort among his _Nachlass_ in Montpellier. ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-alexandre-grothendieck-has-passed-away/704592/15 "2014-11-16T04:14:00Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > “greatest” is always tough to assign, but I think you would have a hard time finding someone more influential without going back before World War II. I don’t know— how about Serre, or even Thurston? It is hard to come up with an example of someone who revised a subject as thoroughly as Grothendieck did with algebraic geometry.